Am I the only one who worries that modern parenting techniques will result in a nation of brats who expect everybody

[Twiglett]

to do what they want them to do, to not exhibit any negative emotions or vocabulary and to accept any way they act

I do wonder sometimes when I see some of the vehement opinions expressed on here

but then I hope this is only the nature of parenting toddlers and that these children will start to get an idea of what real life is like as they grow up and before they get rudely thrust into it not understanding why the world doesn't bend to their every whim nor explain everything in minute detail

I haven't read the thread but I just wanted to say that I wish more people were happy to partake in collective parenting. By that I mean tell my kids off when they've clearly done something wrong and allow others to tell their kids off too. It amazes me how precious people are about this sort of thing.

I can't see it as anything other than good that my kids grow up to respect all adults and to understand the concept of collective responsibility.

pippi - if you are still reading this thread the book is called:

"Child Behavior - from the Gesell Institute of Human Development"

[notice "behavior" spelling, not mine, it is an American book]

Authors: Frances L., Louise Bates, and Sidney Baker.

Publisher: Harper Perennial, 1992 edition

ISBN: 0-06-092276-1

There may be a more recent edition than mine.

Have fun with it

Greeny, I'm sure I let you know I was Psycho in my email........

I think there are extremes of public behaviour in some of today's children which I do not recall from my own childhood. Firstly, you have the young 'hoodies' with whom few adults have ever bothered to engage and who are now alienated from the rest of us and hostile to anyone not in their gang. You can tell very early on which children will be like this from the way their parent speaks to them 'Oi, dickhead!', being my favourite recent example.

Then you get the nice middle class children who have had everything explained to them ad infinitum, who have been reasoned with and given every opportunity to better themselves at the expense of mummy and daddy's sanity. I'm not even going to bother to give my impression of these children - you can imagine.

So, extremes on a continuum, but there in large enough numbers to really make us wonder where we are heading...

syr - I don't think our children are unhappy because folk get naffed off with them going to restaurants at night, also I didn't say Brits do everything right, far from it.

Nadine - you said you are not "concerned" about what they do around the world re. raising children.

Of course if Britain had the happiest, most well-adjusted, best educated children in Europe, I would say sod them we are ok here. We don't, so we need to be less complacent IMO.

i odn thin they measured " saitsifaciton iwht eating out" on the list in all honselty
ithink mroe of it was to do wiht healcare, pushy education adn the like

i am not talking about children being unhappy because they had a bad restaurant experience, if they had we would have been at the bottom of the entire world, what with stomach churning chicken nuggets everywhere

it revealed quite a lot about child poverty in one of the most industrialsed countries in the world, which is really extremely sad

poor children with not enough fun things to do who get bullied at school - it embarrassed me as a Brit.

Message withdrawn

I don't think it is a tangent taken too far. In fact someone took the piss didn't they (in some crap tabloid) re. continental family meals vs. British families (not everyone obvioulsy, but far too many) where food is eaten in front of the tv, with a teenager in a strop going off to eat his meal upstairs, etc.

I can't see how our way of eating (either in the home or outside) makes families or children very happy. It is a minority here who pay as much attention, dedication, devotion, etc to large family meals that include lots of children. May be at special once a year occassions, but not every weekend like some places I have lived in Europe.

we got through the meal fairly well. He was a bit whingy but it was quiet whinginess

We saved the full blown tantrum for the way home (I would not normally keep him up after bedtime, myself, but while we were on a let's have a nice quick family meal type schedule, the people we were with were ordering pre-starters and the pudding that takes 15 mins to prepare). Anyway, it wasn't the dodgy hubristic experience I was expecting after my earlier posts.

SYR thanks a lot for that! I'll try ordering it tomorrow. I will let you know...

Pippi - Thanks to you I have recovered my copy from a box, dusted off and reading it -we moved house a few months ago so it was hidden away !

Franny - glad you had a relatively good restaurant experience - may be we should all start a child-friendly restauarnt guide on MN ?

Any way we are having a big family picnic in the park today, 3 families, lots of children although ds is the youngest. The advanatge of picnic is that you don't have to insist on excellent table manners , they run around with the other children while the adults eat and talk

I think they already have one

have skimmed thread
totally agree that ther are some placesi dont fakrign want kdis in
my hairdressers is one
the gym is another cna just abotu toelrate 18 year olds

and restruarsntst heat are swannky - not tgis or owt obv

"and restruarsntst heat are swannky - not tgis or owt obv"

could you say that one again, or could someone who knows cod translate please ? lol....

swanky reaturants not this one obviously?

Not too sure?

and restaurants here are swanky, not tgi's or obviously

could be that lol but can't work out what owt could be, maybe another restaurant name or just owt lol.

"and restaurants that are swanky - not TGIFs or owt obv"

last bit means "not the chain known as TGIFridays or anything of that ilk, obviously"

cod speak suddenly clicked with me one day

I think I have been on here too long

ah yes
owt is a veryuseful mn phrase

Well please replace it with "things of that ilk" in future, as it is confusing people

(would love to see what "ilk" looked like in a cod sentence)

non chain, private rest are friendlier with kids I find.
chain ones only friendly with grinned teeth - because they have to - waiters/ess wish they could kill the children (I happen know that because I used to be one for a while long time ago... )

oh ok, useful to know cod lingo

pippi - you are right and i think as someone said already the chains do bad food any way, they give crayons, etc, but is just to compensate for the bad food