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Original poster

Am I the only one who worries that modern parenting techniques will result in a nation of brats who expect everybody

424 replies

Twiglett · 28/03/2007 08:50

to do what they want them to do, to not exhibit any negative emotions or vocabulary and to accept any way they act

I do wonder sometimes when I see some of the vehement opinions expressed on here

but then I hope this is only the nature of parenting toddlers and that these children will start to get an idea of what real life is like as they grow up and before they get rudely thrust into it not understanding why the world doesn't bend to their every whim nor explain everything in minute detail

OP posts:
Original poster
Twiglett · 31/03/2007 08:58

oh and a child tantruming in public with a parent trying to negotiate them out of it and 'undersanding their feelings' makes me larf my feckin' head off

OP posts:
OrvilleRedenbacher · 31/03/2007 08:59

yes
mine are well beahgved ont eh whiole
altho ds3 just trotted off to hsi room fo a min over pain au raisin( ponce)

i thinkt he "pig under arm" thign is good

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:02

So twig - could you please let us know what you do or did when your child had a full blown tantrum in a shop ?

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:02

I am also fond of the pig under arm trick in a pinch

I dislike the term "permissive parenting"

I am not a permissive parent, I am quite firm I would say in what I expect in terms of behaviour

I just try not to use punitive methods to get there, and don't feel the world is coming to an end if my 3 y o has a tantrum in public

Greenleeves · 31/03/2007 09:06

I am also pretty firm and strict about manners and behaviour (as any MNer who has met me and my children will confirm). It's just a different approach to parenting. I think people of the "seen and not heard, do as you're told because I'm bigger than you" ilk tend to assume that anyone not parenting their way isn't parenting at all. It's just common ignorance, really.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:06

and I am not sure where you get this idea:

"who believe their 3 or 4 year old are too young to exhibit good behaviour in public .. it feels to me that they've read the literature and absorbed the 'too young for cognitive understanding, it will develop' approach without appreciating that it is a continuum "

I haven't seen anyone say the things you are suggesting.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:08

Yes our children are pretty well behaved wouldn't you say Greeny? I mean apart from being fairly LOOPY that is

I think we are just less likely to go and commit harikiri in shame if we get a meltdown in Asda

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:11

yes quite franny, we got stares from a load of poncey restaurant customers in a restaurant because ds was being happy, a bit loud and boisterous, it was my mum's birthday. i guess we should have stayed at home, eaten mums cake at home and not caused so much displeasure to the general public then ?

i reckon that if 40 year olds can't understand that a 3 year old is generally louder than a 15 year old in a restaurant, and that this is normal behaviour, THEY are the ones who should be leaving the restaurant, not i

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:13

Ah well...personally I insist on top manners in a restaurant

if he can't use restaurant manners, we leave - not as a punishment, but because you can't stay in a restaurant and disturb other people, IMO

I don't think loud and boisterous children have a place in a restaurant, sorry

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:15

I think I have had to leave twice in total

Once when he was about 18 m o

once when he was 3

we do eat out reasonable regularly so he has plenty of chance to practice

the hardest times are when we are with relations who think it is fine for him to get down and run about, and encourage him to do so

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:16

well, i disagree. it is a very British thing not allowing any kind of noise in a restaurant, isn't it ? in most places in Europe it is tolerated because people generally like to see small children in public.

i don't see a 3 year old being a bit loud in public as a disturbance to the peace punishable by getting the police round, it is ABSURD !

Blandmum · 31/03/2007 09:16

I'm all in favous of taking kids out for meals etc and have done so since they were babes in arms.

Now at 7 and 10 they both cope well and behave well.

I do think that there are times for taking kids to posh resturants. Lunch is fair game in my book, as is the early evening.

But if I am honest, I'm not that fond of toddlers charging round post 8 o'clock.

Fond of an early bedtime for littles me. And If I've got mine to bed, and paid a sitter so I can enjoy a bit of child free time, I do get a it peed off if the dining room is converted into a branch of Charie Chalks.

This could be down to me neing a sour puss and grumpy face, but is also due to my feeling that while my children are a vital part of my life, the universe does not revolve aroubd them, and them alson.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:18

I like to see young children in restaurants and I would expect a bit more noise and disturbance than usual, but if they are really being boisterous and disturbing other people I would leave, personally

I think bringing the police into it is exaggerating slightly

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:19

You can't INSIST on top manners from a 3 year old in a restaurant. you can STOP visiting coffee shops and restaurants because you can't force him to sit still. i absolutely refuse to do that. i have as much right to breastfeed a toddler or even allow him to make a bit of noise in a restauarnt, as some 80 year old granny sitting very quietly in the corner and staring at us in amazement !

BandofBunnies · 31/03/2007 09:19

F & Z, you have given me a lot to think about. I expect far to much from my 3 yo. I think because she talks sooo well, and has for a long time. You could converse properly with her at 2. I always think she is older than she is, and so does everyone else. She's also tall and has been mistaken for a 5 yo. I MUST try to remember that just because she looks and talks like one, doesn't mean she is capable of acting like one.

I forget this so often, and need reminding more!!!!

Greenleeves · 31/03/2007 09:21

But I don't see that taking a child to a restaurant means that the world is revolving around him/her. Does the world revolve around you every time you eat out? Personally I have had my dinner ruined more times by lairy obnoxious adults than by other people's children. And the ones who do behave horrendously IME are the ones who aren't used to this sort of social environment and whose parents are of the "Gerr'ere, or Ah'll fookin belt yer" persuasion.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:22

A child coming into a coffee shop and being a bit loud is not going to ruin anyone's day. They can drink their coffee quickly and bugger off

A table of noisy and rowdy children with their parents not making any allowances for the fact that they are in an adult type environment, is a ruddy nuisance and can spoil the enjoyment of a lot of people who have spent a lot of money on a nice meal out.

No, I can't insist on top manners from a 3 y o in a restaurant, but I can help him learn how he should behave and I can leave if he is not managing it on that occasion. Which is what I do.

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:24

the police thing was comic relief, franny people stare and i find it incredibly rude, it is like saying you don't belong here. my son is very active, happy, confident, generally delightful 3 year old. most adults i know love being with him. if the general public like eating in absolute silence, it is their problem, not ours we don't EVER get stared at when we are in Spain or Italy, so it is a totally cultural thing.

if more people in this country took their 3 year old out to restaurants, then perhaps we would find more child friendly restaurants, esp. in parts of London.

Greenleeves · 31/03/2007 09:27

Yes, I would leave too, if one of my two was behaving so appallingly that nobody could enjoy their meal or hear themselves think. But I think people overreact to the very sight of a child out in public after about 6.30pm. The same phrases come up every time on these threads (and the child-free wedding ones ) - "screaming kids everywhere", "kids running round", "boisterous noisy kids". It's like some kind of mass pathological phobia in this country . It's sad.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:27

BofB I think that is a common mistake with children who are fluent talkers or look older

and I think society generally expects obedience at all times from children, no matter what age, and this message sometimes drowns out our own parenting instincts which tell us that our children are young and deserve patience and forebearance

just not TOO much forbearance in restaurants, please

saintyellowrose · 31/03/2007 09:28

yes, i have found myself leaving restauarnts and coffee shops sometimes. ds is nearly 3 now and much better than he used to be when 2 and we hardly ever went out then. i think you are being very very judgemental franny, without actually ever having met my son or observed what he does !!!??? we don't go out in gangs of hooligan like, loud 3 year olds. it is always just the 3 of us. if the restaurant managemnet is welcoming to children, we go.

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:28

Oh lord have just realised we are going out tonight and ds has been erm

spirited

this week

I bet you anything this bites me on the arse this evening, he will be appalling won't he and we will have to leave?

zippitippitoes · 31/03/2007 09:29

I think that parents should take the cue from the restaurant they pick and know their child...children whoi leave the table abd entertain themselves at the expense of other customers are not being taught social skills

FrannyandZooey · 31/03/2007 09:30

Ooh where have I been judgemental about your son yr? I have based my comments in my first post on what you said "loud and boisterous"

The rest of my comments have been about noisy children in restaurants in general, not about your family at all

Blandmum · 31/03/2007 09:32

No, I don't think that taking children to a resturant means that the world revolves aroubd them. And if you read my post, you will see that I am actually in favour of taking children to resturants!

the 'world revolving round them' bit would cover those times when parents let their children behave in a resutrant in the way they let them behave in a playground.

Children have to learn that there are patterns of permissable behaviour. And IME they learn this quite quickly, given practice.

Mine can now 'do' a 2.5 meal in a French resturant and behave exceptionally well. I wouldn't have tried this when they were 2. We built them up to it.

And BTW I expect all people regardless of age to bahve resonably in public places. I'm funny like that.