Am I the only one who worries that modern parenting techniques will result in a nation of brats who expect everybody

[Twiglett]

to do what they want them to do, to not exhibit any negative emotions or vocabulary and to accept any way they act

I do wonder sometimes when I see some of the vehement opinions expressed on here

but then I hope this is only the nature of parenting toddlers and that these children will start to get an idea of what real life is like as they grow up and before they get rudely thrust into it not understanding why the world doesn't bend to their every whim nor explain everything in minute detail

just thinking of the mumsnet X factor

yes, in some profs. it is a disaster if you don't know your good wine from bad

"Right kids, our lesson for today: How to send back your steak because it's just a leetle overdone"

ah pippi - that is too sweet - no wait for the 2 - 3 age range ! it will change your life !

right pippi - i am off to find that book for you - will post later after ds has had lots of boisterous fun in the garden

my almost 3 year old knows how to behave in a restaurant

although I'd never take them to one in the evening .. because evening is adult time and if I'd paid for a babysitter the sounds of someone else's 3 or 6 year old charging around would totally piss me off

my children have also been going to restaurants for lunch / early dinner (before 6) since they were babes in arms

and they understand restaurant voice and restaurant behaviour

even though youngest is a 'toddler'

I think basically I just don't like kids

"because evening is adult time and if I'd paid for a babysitter the sounds of someone else's 3 or 6 year old charging around would totally piss me off"

gosh you're brave.

tbh though, I agree with you.

its ridiculous that I had to 'be brave' to assert an opinion like that isn't it

the problem, IMHO, with child-centred parenting at the extreme (not talking about anyone here of course .. mutter, mutter) is that the rest of the world is not centred on your child

you have to bring your child up to fit into the world

you cannot change the world to fit your child

seen and not heard that's what I say

that fleshy I love kids appendage atrophies pretty quick once you don't have to love them so much

That is a very very British attitude though. Not seeing or hearing children after 6:00 pm because you have paid a baby sitter ? I am not saying whether it is good or bad, it is just very British = lol !

Oh God, I feel a Xenia comment coming my way re. working mums, employing nannies and babysitters, etc., I better get off this thread FAST !

Amen to that Twiglett.

Yes, but who defines THE WORLD ? Other nationalities don't see things the way we do re. raising kids. Are they wrong ?

We take DD (aged 4) out to eat if thats what we are doing, mostly about 6pm. She knows how to behave at the table, to the point a lovely couple on holiday stopped us on way out to tell us how wonderfully behaved she had been
In other countries Im so surprised to see children out with parents eating dinner at 9-10 pm!! Seeing them in bars too.
I agree, your children have to fit in with the world, and teach them how to behave. But yes would agree, someone small child screaming away when Im out on a rare night with DH can be very grrrr.
L

I don't think you're brave Twig, I just think you're wrong

a child sitting at a table and talking in a restaurant voice in a restaurant at 9 - 10 is totally fine

a child who gets up and wanders round who raises their voice who whines simply isn't

and I laugh at it being a 'british approach' .. british children are well-known for behaving appallingly abroad .. might be something to do with weak parenting I don't know

Oh, no, actually you are right about that

I think most of us child-centric freaks are still mindful of the needs and rights of other adults, and would remove a whining, charging-about overtired child from a restaurant in the evening. I would, anyway.

But I don't appreciate being scowled at purely for bringing my children out after dark, when they are sitting nicely eating their meals. It's just bigotry IMO, and a bit weird.

We were in Italy last year and went out with Italian friends to eat with all our children.

We were out late and the children were so tired they all fell asleep slumped on their chairs in the restaurant.

Our friends were saying 'isn't it great no one minds this in Italy?'

I was thinking 'this is bloody cruel,these children should be cosy and comfy in bed'.

It felt horrible.

They were all cranky and overtired the next day, and it spoilt their day on thre beach.

I think sometimes this continental attitude that is so appaulded is just convenient for the parents, and not child centered at all.

What do children under the age of 10 really get out of sitting in a restaurant for 2 hours late at night? I suggest not much, they'd be happier in bed.

When on holiday we tend to eat early and briefly with them, if eating out, eat at the villa often and then get a abysutter for leisurely later adult meals.

Yes it's nice for us, but also I think much more child centered.

I think that's just about common sense though Psycho. If the child is patently exhausted, not up to enjoying himself and would be better off at home in bed, you finish up and go home. I would, anyway. I have taken my two out in the evening maybe 4 or 5 times, and had to leave early for that reason once. The other times they have been fine and enjoyed themselves immensely - if you know your child, you know what sort of day they've had and whether they're likely to cope or not.

Yes of course it's down to common sense.

But common sense would tell mne that for children under 5 in particular, they are likely to be overtired if uot after 8ish, and that even if they weren't their idea of a good time is not to sit statica at a table for 2hours.

That is an adult activity, that children get dragged along to.

I do take mine out to eat. But ususally not too late (I have seen so many unhappy children out too late, here and in Italy), and not for too long, without expecting them to be able to move around.

This is a genarlaisation, as we have on occasions had them out late in a restaurant without it seeming cruel. But this has been when they've had a sleep before going out to ensure they're not overtireed and will enjoy it, and sitting in a restaurant next to an Italian piazza where they can play football and ride their scooters with other kids while we linger over our wine and offee and chat.. Bring on the summer.

I just think that what is proposd as 'child' centered' is not always that. If you think they need to sleep so prefer to get a babysitter and go out without them, you actually go out a lot less often and restricted yourself. Rather than dragging them along on what is essentially a pleasnt avtivity for adults.

yellow rose, have you actually read my posts.

I didn't say after 6 I said toddlers after 8

BTW. Hello Greeny. Did you get my email?

'british children are well-known for behaving appallingly abroad'

most people I speak to in italy believe the opposite actually - italians are famous for looking up at other countries

it's a case of the grass is greener I think!

and I don't agree to the italian way of keeping the children up so late (and yes it is done) once because they should need their rest and two because I believe I deserve at least a few hours of peace a day!!!

mb - i wasn't talking to you - i think twiglett mentioned babysitters after 6 pm ! i don't allow ds to stay up later than 8 pm. not even if we eat out. he gets tired and so do we - lol