This is a VERY sensitive subject, I know, but I am curious to know just how big a problem this is

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

How many people on here have been assaulted/raped and have either reported or not reported it?

I found out that the conviction rate rapes was just 6% . 6% of reported rapes. There are many many many more that go unreported. I want to know roughly what kind of figure we are looking at. Please change your name if need be, but do post.....

I'll start..

Me - unreported.

I think this is it

"And of course, more importantly, teach our boys that women are NOT their property / playthings / objects of pleasure with no voices."

I agree but I feel that sadly much of modern society - mainly in the music arena, gives the exact opposite message. Think of those god awful rap videos with hundreds of women dancing around in bikinis. I know it doesn't cause it but is must be sending a certain message to young lads.

katierocket, yes, and that whole scenario of women's 'rape fantasies' - they say no but really they're loving it. That's been in stories / films / imagination for decades.

Bramshot - I agree with you. People should realise that you should be able to remove consent at any point.

Sadly alot of people I know don't agree - my dp does.

One of the reasons I love him was he said no to me when we first got together because I was drunk and he said I'd regret it - he admitted it was difficult to do so, but he respected me too much to do that. He's a very good man.

Jesus Ulysees, how horrendous.

Yes sophable I'm sure you're right, it would be interesting to know though wouldn't it. ALthough you could never find out as it was so unreported.

on a thread yesterday on here women were questionning womens motives in bringing up abuse/assault 20 years later.....

Thats women on a mumsnet .There is little hope in the big wide world if we cannot support or believe our own

I have been thinking about katierocket's question about whether it is worse now than in the 50s. I think the difference is that we can now acknowledge that Expat's experience and the women raped by husbands and ex-partners actually are rape. In the 50s it would not have been defined as that.

Bramshott - I was horrified when my mum was saying that it was all very well saying no, but once men have got going they can't always stop I couldn't believe that my intelligent mother actually thought that.

have just logged on to mn and somehow knew that this thread would still be going strong. and

BUT we can teach our kids to see it differently can't we? Just because it's on t.v. and they like to see it they can distinguish fiction from reality if we give them the mental tools to do it. I'm always trying to get dd to see things 'critically' (she's only 4 so this is in a very basic sense). Just because it's in your face doesn't mean you have to buy into it.

Bramshott: 'Consent is absolute, and can be withdrawn at any point.' Absolutely. And there are many men who get this. As a student I was once asleep in bed with a man I'd met at a club and when we woke up he pulled me to him quite hard started rubbing himself against me. I struggled and said no, and he stopped immediately and apologised. (Bloody hell, I have been lucky, haven't I). So if some men get it, why can't (or rather won't) others?

would i listen. this is a question that tortures me. I like to pray that i would.

but

dh and i promised ourselves that we wouldn't leave ds alone with anyone until he could speak to us and tell us if something was wrong. luckily he spoke v early (!) but the fact is we have a new part time nanny who we have very good reason to trust (she was our friends nanny for four years and is kind, calm, all the things you might want). since leaving him with her to put to bed (first time ever that it wasn't me, dh or my parents) when we went to a wedding a couple of weeks ago he hasn't wanted to be alone with her. he has cried when i've left. but been fine within minutes (i've peeped in through window). same for nursery school today and yesterday.

so i'm not listening. i'm rationalising away what he is saying (that he doesn't wnat me to go to work, doesn't want to be left alone with (insert nanny's name) and doesn't want to be left at nursery.

as parents we don't hear what we don't want to do we.

I know it's different. and that if he said he didn't want to be alone with her as she touched him in a bad way (for example) i would stop him seeing her. but it makes me wonder...would i???? immediately??? would i believe him.

god i hope so.

I think and hope that society is moving forward with regard to believing women, supporting them etc but at the same time a) it's still a shocking statistic that so few rapes end in conviction and b) as much as we move forward I think we move back because of how sexualised our children are at an earlier age. I'll explain what i mean. Friend of mine is a teach of secondary school kids and says that she is constantly gobsmacked at how children as young as 12 are so sexually aware. Dress in really skimpy clothes, do those bump and grind dances at discos etc. I know elements of this happens when you grow up but I do think music culture is making it more 'necessary' that young girls are seen to be 'sexy'.

Good point FIT. I've said no lots of times. And been heard.

I've got to pick up dd, now. But for a fictional insight into what happened to rape victims in the 1950s (earlier in this story I think), has anybody read 'The disappearance of Esme Lennox', new novel by Maggie O Farrell? May have the title a bit squiffy but it's roughly that.

I mentioned the educate boys stuff too because mostly people focus on teaching girls safety rather than trying to upgrade male morality.

ILC - My DH was the same... I was very drunk and he said no - I swore lots and got sooo stroppy

Agree that those of use with boys have a moral duty to teach them respect for women. Just some of the stuff they can get their hands on now (via internet etc)tells a whole different story

I don't know how I can protect my daughters from experiencing what happened to me except to warn them.

I was 18. I always had a good self-esteem, but I was drunk and carefree. It was pretty normal teen behaviour. All of my friends were going out, getting rat arsed, and 'hooking up' w/guys/girls.

I wasn't a virgin.

And tbh, like kama pointed out, in my instance, I was really confused as to whether or not I'd truly been raped b/c all I'd said was, 'Whoa! I'm not sure if I want you to go there.' I'm not sure. Not 'Stop it now!' and screaming and yelling. Was SO drunk, I was beyond thinking very reasonably.

He was never anything but calm. Just very matter of fact, you should have thought about that, now I'm going to have you sort of thing.

I could feel how strong he was.

www.christinazone.com/videos/

Video for Dirrty is here

I agree, it is a horrible view that the media have of women. It is all very well teaching children ot be 'critical' but this is the culture that they WANT to be part of - this is 'cool', this is how they WANT to grow up because all their friends are part of it too

Videos like this one would not have been seen outside of a porn channel when I was a teenager

sophable, small children are so strange though in what they tell you. Dd's at pre-school now and every day I ask her about it and she tells me virtually nothing even though she's wonderfully articulate and has been speaking since 18 months. One night I was bathing her and she had a massive bite mark on her thigh. I gasped and asked her where it came from and she said matter of factly: 'Sebastian did it at story time. I was very brave, I didn't even cry'. I wanted to hit the wall. I told her she should have screamed and told the teacher. The fact she didn't even think to mention it to me has worried me since.

Got to go. I feel so strongly for all the people who've shared stories on here.

That's my point exactly MP. It really worries me.

Of course, mp, but you've got to at least try to encourage them to criticise it / see what it's doing, no? Or what's the alternative?

is dirrty about men exploiting women? or is it about a woman exploring her own sexuality and fantasies?

can a woman dress provocatively, dance provocatively and sing provocative lyrics and that be empowering? isn't accusing her of being part of why men rape part of the same argument that says that women that dress in short skirts 'ask for it'.

If I had 10p for every woman I met who had an instance like mine, in which the man was of the attitude, 'Well, you got me all hot and bothered. I couldn't control myself,' I'd be rich.

Not to mention that fact that many of these men were under the influence of so much alcohol or drugs, you wonder how much control they had over themselves.

NO, that is NOT an excuse.

But I don't know what goes on in their heads when they've had too much.