MNHQ transphobia guidelines part 2

[QueenStromba]

First thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2120841-MNHQ-are-going-to-decide-what-constitutes-transphobia-on-MN-What-advice-guidelines-would-you-give-them?

Sitestuff thread that was about is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2117350-MNHQ-now-email-posters-with-how-to-get-around-the-talk-guidelines?

The thread that was about is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2107862-Following-on-from-the-TERF-thread?

A man who thinks he is a woman is not a woman.

You know, one of the lines I really liked in that Miss Hell Bedlam link quoted earlier,

'5. Transsexual people are capable of building healthy, happy lives for themselves, and do not need to be treated like they are made of glass or like their physical reality must be papered over with magical thinking.'

It's great that you feel passionate about trans rights, Myrtle, but the way you are doing this activism is so, so misconceived.

We read a lot about babies being "coercively assigned a gender" at birth. We read less about how often the baby is carried and delivered by a person with a penis. Why is that, biologically speaking?

I'm wondering if Myrtle is referring to the genital bit in a fetus later becoming the penis or the clitoris, depending on the sex of the baby.

Because, surely, nobody in their right mind would believe that a clitoris is a teeny tiny penis.

Oh, and I am not cis. I am a woman

What does "gender matches sex" mean?

Myrtle, 'cis' demands the concept of an essential gender identity. Those of us who reject the term cis argue that this reified gender identity does not exist for many people.

You might reckon you have it. But not all women do. So the division of the world into people with gender/sex on the same side/different sides (=meaning of Latin prefixes cis and trans) is problematic.

I totally reject being referred to as CIS. I was born as female. I am not other.

biologically penises are just bigger clitorises. If you object then feel free to take it up with a biologist.

Oh my, thanks for the info. Do you know where I can buy some clit-condoms? I'm afraid I might impregnate my partner next time we have sex. I have been so careless before.

kim MRAs often talk about this, that not every man benefits from male privilege. It's the same point.

If you don't want to be labelled as cis, don't label trans women as trans but just accept them as women. Simple.

What if you aren't cis? I don't have an inner gender to match up with my outer biological sex.

No kim, you were still socialised as a male. I completely accept that you didn't fit into that rigid socialisation mould but that doesn't take away from the fact that it was the expectation of you because you were born into a male body.

Now the thread is reminding me of a time a poster made a very odd thread in AIBU about waxing and such, and demonstrated that he she thought women urinated through their clitorises.

Myrtle - Please answer this simple question:

What is the definition of the word "woman"?

Lots of people have been affected from growing up differently.

Doesn't make them women.

How ironic that someone who says a penis is just a bigger clitoris can also say "gender matches sex". I don't expect you'll get this point myrtle but to say "gender matches sex" you must:

(a) believe there is some inherent essence of being a woman which is different from chromosomes, sex organs etc.

(b) believe that there are different sexes.

You seem to be arguing for (a) but against (b) when in fact (b) is a scientific fact and (a) has no scientific basis.

I do understand that kim and I'm really sorry to hear that. But it's men/boys and the patriarchy that are the issue, not women. So I don't really understand why and how FWR is the battle site. Shouldn't it be elsewhere?