what are your feelings on the MMR jab??

[doodypud]

My DD has an appt for her jab on the 3rd of April, i am still really concerned about the possible links with Autism, has anyone else had concerns or any bad experiences?

DC how many kids have gone blind in the uk?

Don't know the exact number, don't think it's been published.
I recall that there's a roughly 2/500 chance of blindness if you get measles. Given the length of time that the media has been confusing the issue, hard not to see that making it into hundreds.

If it helps, I know one.

Noddy, I don't see why my stance against mass vaccinations relates in any way to my views on the treatment of my son's condition and the fact that he relies on modern medicine for his survival. After all, it's not as if I'd consider witholding his insulin in the belief that I can find an alternative solution to cope with his knackered pancreas. I'm not stupid.

These are two completely different fields of medicine and I use my judgement. My experience has told me time and again not to put blind faith in the medical establishment.

I have huge respect for branches of medicine which can fix things when they break. Preventative medicine, though, is less straight forward for me.

I simply don't believe they've got it right when it comes to mass vaccination. It's a view I hold deeply. In fact I believe they're messing up on a large scale.

Harpsi, I honestly don't know how it's possible for me not to be on the defensive after some of your comments. Or to put it another way, you started it.

How could I not react to the following post of yours (to take just one of many):

"Spidermama, I was commenting on your statement that people make decisions based - like you - on what's best for their children. I was just commenting that, for some people, that isn't the end of the story and they take the bigger pcture into account. "

I do take the bigger, picture into account. I just don't reach the same conclusions as you do as to what's best for the community as a whole. However, I would never have accused you of failing to take into account the needs of the wider community because I realise we have polarised views on how this is best achieved.

I don't wish to critisise anyone personally because I know how hurtful it can be, but I think the this is one of those debates where the divide is unbridgable.

Haven't had time to read through the whole thread, but dh and I were discussing this very subject last week as dd2 had an appointment for MMR yesterday (which we kept, incidentally).

Now, dh is a professor of medicinal chemistry and involved in drug design, so knows what he is talking about, and he says that there is, as yet, no proof that having single jabs is as effective as having thhe triple jab. I am not a scientist, so don't really know why this is, but iirc (dh is out atm so can't ask him), I think he said it is to do with the way the 3 vaccinations react together in MMR that makes them effective. Although, in theory having the vaccinations separately should be fine, it is unproven.

Tbh, this doesn't really make sense to me, but, as I say, dh knows better than I do (I don't know a thing about chemistry), so I trust what he says.

Anyway, as I said, dd2 had the MMR yesterday (is fine so far) and dd1 had it 7 years ago with no ill effects. From what I have read, I don't believe the link with autism is proven, but neither is it unproven. I personally felt that that any potential risk was low enough to discount, the risks involved with not vaccinating, being higher.

I take your point although I do feel that people are quick to slate trad medicine until they need it.A vaccine has been developed against the virus which causes cervical cancer and the plans are to vaccinate girls around the age of 12-13 In trials it has been 100% effective and will eradicate the disease bar a few cases which aren't virus linked. This is not wrong it is progress!

Noddyholder is generally right, but I see a nastier issue in people who deluded views on medicine be they based upon the junk science of alternative medicine, or religious belief.

They do as noddyholder says, often see sense once they start to suffer, but there is a far longer lag for their children's suffering. I hear many parents talk proudly of how they don't give painkillers to kids because of the "chemicals" in them.

Even though the anti-MMR crowd are mostly just stupid drones over-influenced by daytime TV and the Daily Mail, at least they are trying to do the right thing. Though if there was an intelligence test before you were allowed to conceive, they'd fail it.

But I keep bumping into parents forcing unhealthy diets on their kids, or denying them medical treatment because they "don't trust doctors". Hell after studying alongside Barts medics who are supposed to be amongst the best in the world, I don't trust them 100% either.
But a rational person, even one who's read the Daily Mail and genuinely believes that entities smaller than water molecules live inside homeopathic rip offs, should be able to work out that they are usually right.

Arrogant shorthand dominiConnor.
I suggest you read the thread before you make such crass generalisations otherwise you may just come across as being willfully ignorant.

Noddy I feel I am questioning aspects of modern medicine, which is not the same as 'slating modern medicine'.

I don't think I've ever read the daily mail. And I definately don't watch daytime tv.

Dominiconnor, your post is filled more with name calling than it is with logical arguments.

BTW, I don't even know what is on daytime TV.

is that supposed to pass for intelligent debate domimiconnor. It has to be one of the most offensive arrogant posts I have ever read on mumsnet

unblievable jumped up arrogance.

and before you try and debate something please try and understand the srguments. No-one, no-one no-one is suggesting for even the smallest moment that MMR is responsible for the massive rise in autism cases, but that is not the same as saying it doesn't trigger a small number of cases. If you want to argue against Wakefield then at least read what his arguments are- there are links further down the thread you can do that if you want. With your current "knowledge" you'd be slated within seconds. If you can't be bothered to try and understand the arguments then keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.

People I've come across who attribute MMR to specific cases include consultabnt paediatricins and immunologists. Are they stupid drones over-influenced by daytime TV and the DM.

As for ambulance chasing lawyers there are actions in process nin the States against thimerosal. There is also quite a lot research ongoing into the role heavy metals play in the development of autism. New publication last week no less. If you stopped being incredibly offensive for 2 minutes and read the thread and the links you might actually educate yourself.

BonyM, you DH may be interested in a small study published in the BMJ a couple of years ago. Purely from memory (and a terrible pregnancy brain ), they looked at efficacy of MMR vs singles, and found singles to be 99% effective, vs 90% with the MMR. I think at the time the 5-in-1 was about to be rolled out and they were trying to raise debate on reduced efficacy of combined vaccines.

DominiConnor - on mumsnet people like to have intelligent conversations and informed debate so I guess you won't be around for long. I've never read such nonsense - in fact if you hadn't posted on other threads I would be inclined to think you are a hairy (male) troll.

spidermama I feel I should respond to your post and though I didn't want to bump the thread again here it is in active convos

reading my post again - the one you quote - I can see how that might be taken as offensive and I am genuinely sorry if it caused offence. I see how you could have interpreted it like that, but I really wasn't making any comment on your motivations.

It is a comment that particularly grates with me - not only in this context but in many others e.g. the choice to privately educate, use private medicine for example - that parents invariably choose what is best for their own children, with the implication that this excludes consideration for others. I resent the implication that, as a parent, my interests are purely selfish. Of course they aren't, and of course your's aren't too. Of course we all have a primary responsibility to our own children but it isn't overreaching by any means. I believe that excessive focus on our families and complacency about the effect of our actions on the wider community - and to be clear I am not accusing you or anyone in particular of this - has led to many of the more serious problems in our society. I just don't see it as a get out of jail free card - "I was thinking of my own children, not Johnny down the road."
Of course in many cases the risks to our own children may be paramount. But that is not the same as saying that the wider community should not come into the equation.

But I accept my vehemence on this (wider) issue and my frustration may have led me to be (inadvertently) insulting.
however, I am not sure what in my posts has led you to that conclusion that I won't/can't be bothered to listen to the other side of the debate. I can assure you that I am perfectly willing and able to consider other points of view from my own. The fact that my opinions differ from yours does not necessarily mean that I am not prepared to listen or change my mind.

as it happens I find your posts frequently very refreshing, compelling and informative.

Wow, DC, what an eloquently-written trollish post.

Harpsi ... this is the last time I'm bumping this thread and I wouldn't do it anyone but you, probably.

I totally agree that we've lost a wider sense of community and become too much focussed on our own often to the unecessary detriment of others, not to mention the environment (another issue though). It came about during Thatcher's reign and we've never shaken off her legacy.

See now! I knew you and I could find some common ground if we worked hard enough.

yes! quite
that's exactly what I meant

going to bed happy now

' stupid drones over influenced by the daily mail and daytime tv'.
I've said it on other threads and I'll say it again: Dominiconnor you are talking out of your arse. Superiority complex or what????

DC, you make me cackle. the daily mail is the most scaremongering 'you must vaccinate your kid otherwise you are irresponsible intellectual middle class mother of doom and your children will die and go blind'. and you are right there with them.

classic.

Suspect Domini, like many men, just enjoys seeking out places full of women so he can patronise us. What with his superior grasp of maths and logic and all that stuff which we mere females could never grasp (like Jimjams with her science PhD).

I expect he suffers from small willy syndrome.

lol socci!