what are your feelings on the MMR jab??

[doodypud]

My DD has an appt for her jab on the 3rd of April, i am still really concerned about the possible links with Autism, has anyone else had concerns or any bad experiences?

Although its still not quite that simple is it, because ds1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child.

I am not suggesting not getting the jabs. I am suggesting getting them singly. So, a few months delay and the cost are the only downsides I can see.

My HV told me it was socially irresponsible not to have the jabs.

yes but uwila - in time in which you delay, your child could contract the disease and pass it onto someone else. surely you can see that IS a risk?

Both of mine had it with me being terrified for the next few weeks id their behaviour changd at all - but to be honest I am glad that they did have it as they are fine.

It is a very personal thing and I think you have to do your own research and stop reading hte Daily Mail!!

Mind you read something recently about it in China or Japan that they stopped MMR altoghther and the rates of Autism didn;t change at all!!

If a HV said that to me, the only thing I would say to her/him is "goodbye". And I would never again accept his/her services.

It's also not quite a simple when children who end up severely damaged cannot even get the fact that it was caused by MMR recognised (even if peaditricians etc will tell mothers privately that they think it was the MMR in their child's case- happened to a boy in ds1's class- MMR followed 24 hours by very bad (non-febrile) convulsions- he went into stasis - or whatever it is called. Aged 7 is in nappies, will never talk, will always require care. The peadiatrician told his mother it was probably triggered by the MMR although they would never know for sure, but that the timing made it very likely.

Yes, harpsichord, but it's not enough risk to really worry about. If everyone had the MMR (or singles) at say 18 months instead of 13 months it wouldn't really have that much impact on the herd. It is a risk, but not a big one.

that's right, jimjams. I agree that vacconation is not 100% effective, but that is an argument for more people being vaccinated rather than the otehr way around
I am not saying these are the only risks, but they are risks nonetheless

Twinkle- that research is meaningless- no-one, no-one, no-one is for any one moment suggesting that MMR causes autism in every case, or even in a large number of cases. The best guess at the moment is that it acts as a direct trigger in approx 7% of cases of autism- that will never be picked up looking at unreliable vaccination figures (translates to around in 15000 children receiving the MMR or something). Which is fine, so MMR is safe for the majority of children, but its not much comfort if its your kid that ends up brain damaged.

Gut problems such as crohns do appear to be a risk factor (which I think may fit in with the research published yesterday as well- but I don't know enough of the details)

well it is a risk with other children's/people's health Uwila that I for one would not be happy about taking

yes an argument for more people being vaccinated SAFELY with COMPENSATION for if it goes wrong.

I know quite a few people who haven't vaccinated. We're not lentil weavers we're in the main people who have older kids who have paid quite a high price for us doing our civic "duty".

My responsibility is to my children, not johnny down the street. Avoiding a delay of a few months is not worth any risk of an autism connection. No way!

And if they want to make sure people get all the singles, then they should offer them on the NHS. I bet a lot more people would tunr up for them if they weren't so expensive.

But your happy for my ds2 and ds3 to take a risk of becoming severely autistic? Becuase their risk is considerably higher than your kids.

Exactly Uwila Exactly.

Even the Cochrane report which concluded that given the dangers of MMR (especially in the developing world), and the fact that huge numbers of children weren't keeling over from it meant it was probably best to continue with it said that the safety tests were entirely inadequate and that no-one really knew what it may or may not be doing.

Giving MMR at 13 months is less effective than giving it at 18 months anyway- or at least that's what they used to say- don't know why it was changed in the first place.

hold on a second
everyone has to make their own choices based on their own circumstances
that's a matter for you
I would not be so crass as to dismiss what you consider on careful though to be your risks
what I am suggesting is that there are other risks
and those risks pertain to other, real people, not "some johnny down the street"
each of us needs to make our own decisions based on our own circumstances and risks

Jimjams,
Can you tell me what the risks are to a boy of getting mumps when he is say under 3 yrs old? I think it can be bad as a teenager, but is it bad as a toddler?

jimjims I am not calling you a lentil weaver nor saying I am "happy" for your children to be put at risk
but the risks to our own children are not the only risks to be taken into accoount, imho

I think that parents should choose whichever option they think is best for the individual child.

Ds1 (5yrs) has had the MMR and booster. He is autistic but the MMR had nothing to do with it. The signs were there, with hindsight, from birth. Ds2 (3yrs) is also autistic and has had the MMR. Again there is no connection.

However, IMHO there is a huge difference between our case and those of families who had a child who was developing normally but then regressed within days of the MMR. Contrary to what you hear/read in the media, many parents with autistic children are not looking for someone or something to blame for their child's SN. Only a tiny minority believe the autism was triggered by the MMR. Personally I have a heck of a lot more trust in the opinions of those parents than in the opinions of those who deny that children can be vaccine-damaged.

I'm shocked that the debate on this is still so polarised -- not necessarily on here, but out in RL.

Surely instead of the argument batting between 'Vaccines are dangerous' and 'vaccines are safe' the powers that be should be saying, 'most vaccines are safe for most children, and here's a protocol we're developing to identify those children that are potentially at higher risk of complications'. Then people could make truly informed decisions.

Mine have all had the vaccines and been fine. But, retrospectively, we do have autoimmunity in the family, and it would have been helpful to have had some kind of structure for evaluating the risk/benefit equation of vaccination.

I don't believe in jabs. I don't really want to get into the reasons because it could take me all day and I don't fancy incurring the usual wrath. In case they haven't already been posted here are some things to read on the other side of this very polarised debate.

\link{http://www.informedparent.co.uk/\The Informed Parent.}

\link{http://www.minimum.com/b.asp?a=mass-immunisation-gunnt\This book} is great. The author does very convincing talks on a regular basis.

It's also worth looking at \link{http://www.jabs.org.uk/\the Jabs website.}

so you would give a vaccination to your child to protect johnny donw the street even though you thought it was likely to result in your child needing a lifetime of care? Bollards you would.

Uwila it's very mild in young children. I've been looking for my medical book written in 1989 by an orthodox peaditrician - pre- MMR madness so its sensible about the childhood illnesses IIRC it says in many cases in young children it is symptomless. Incidentally it also described measles as a usually mild self limiting illness, the only problem is the complucations which can be treatred with antibiotics.

Anyway I'm going to parp now because if there's one thing that makes me want to scream its people telling me how wonderful they are for considering other children above their own when they have absolutely no concept of what severe autism means and have never watched their child regress.

doodypud there is at least one person on SN who had a child regress following the MMR. I'm not sure whether the archives search facility is working at the moment, but you could try searching for it.

Exactly frogs. Exactly. Incidentally along with tetanus measles vaccination is something that I would consider giving ds2 and ds3- but not until they reach puberty when the risks from the disease are likely to start to be greater than their risk from the jab (I'd give ds2 tetanus jab now if I oculd give it to him without having to give a pile of other stuff at the same time).

I maintain that every single person on here would put their child's welfare above little johhny down the street. And if they didn't they are imo failing their child.

Also the herd immunity agrument could work the other way round. I could counter by saying, 'I resent that you people who vaccinate are making it much harder for my child to develop childhood illnesses as he should at the right time and in order to mature his immune system in the way nature intended.

You see? The allegation that certain parents are making selfish decisions is really infuriating isn't it? So let's not do it whatever side we're on. It's such a personal choice and a good mum can only do what she believes is right for her children.