what are your feelings on the MMR jab??

[doodypud]

My DD has an appt for her jab on the 3rd of April, i am still really concerned about the possible links with Autism, has anyone else had concerns or any bad experiences?

Spidermama I would be interested to hear how you reconcile your ideology with the fact that your little boy will now need medical intervention for life?This is a serious question btw and not an opener for an argument.I think we are too harsh on conventional medicine without knowing the facts.The very latest transplant immunosuppression is an extract from a root found in papua new guinea which the locals have been chewing for years and using as a v strong anti inflammatory.This drug has revolutionised transplants btw and is extending lives.

jimjams, fwiw I am in favour of a booster MMR. I am not sure in my mind whether the vaccinations programme has made babies more vulnerable - it is not something I considered really until reading it here on mn.
I think it is possible to have respect for the kind of medical advances that have, indisputably, saved many lives while improving the quality of so many others, without being a patsy of the pharma companies.

jimjams - that is the problem with rubella - it can present in a very mild form and still be communicable. My mother sent my sister to school with rubella. but the consequences for pregnant women can be horrendous.
I don't know about the chickenpox vaccine either. I haven't read anything about it really.

Well the main justification for the chickenpox vaccine is to protect the vulnerable (and stop US mommies and daddies taking too may days off work). Certainly the vulnerable children I know who have caught chickenpox have had a nasty dose (encephalitis in one case). So why aren't we all rushing up to get our babies vaccinated against chickenpox. It's never a very popular idea when mooted over here.

So do you keep vaccinating against MMR? Every 10-15 years for the rest of your life? After all adults who catch it are going to be in far worse shape than children (and so will lead to more complicaitons, cost the NHS more etc etc).

These are all questions that never appear to be considered yet I think are important. What if vaccination turns MMR into diseases of babies and adults? Does it matter if only small numbers are affected? Measles is not a good candidate for eradication.

I don't really want to get involved in the debate, but I'm quite surprised by the assumption that vaccines are being pushed so that the pharmaceutical complanies can make a profit. The only one I have any idea about is polio, having read a history of it (and dh having done some work related to it). Profit not an issue, eradication of a serious disease v much so. (And it may have been as good as eradicated worldwide if some populations hadn't stopped vaccinating, eg in Nigeria.)

jimjams, maybe there is a case for continuing to check immunity through out life? or - like the flu vaccine programme - targetting the vulnerable?
I don't see any particular objection ot the chicken pox vaccine, unless there are particular downsides to it. Not sure the cost/benefit would make it worhtwhile

spidermama - but presumably many of the most vulnerable children would be too vulnerable to safely be vaccinated?

jj - i do by and large believe in the herd immunity argument, but equally I think that far far far more effort should be made to screen for children more likely to be at risk from immunisation, and of course into providing adequate support and care for children that are affected.

"to me it is a social responsibility towards people who are weaker and might not have an immune system to develop so wonderfully naturally."

Fairymum - if you believe this then presumably you also believe that every adult should have every vaccine going too, including MMR, flu, men c, etc?

jimjams i fear that a chickenpox vax is well on the way.

spidermama i couldn't agree more.

given that the immune system needs these sorts of illnesses to develop, the likelihood of an increase in prevalence of other potentially more serious diseases is strong. we've turned measles from a killer into a relatively mild disease in the west over a couple of centuries. vax has undone that already (vis adults getting measles, much more serious and also aren't their more virulent strains around post vax being introduced?)

call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but these are HUGE amounts of money we're talking about here, and that means enormous vested interest. very few comparable money spinners (the contraceptive pill is one, don't get me started on that).

I agree sophable. I don't think I'm a conspiracy theorist at all just because I don't blindly believe everything we are told by the authorities.

'I think boosters in teens is a good idea and it's not just the US, but also some Scandinavian countries which do this. I personally vaccinated mine at 16 months and will give booster at 11-12 years. The MMR that is.... '

I agree. I was vaccinated in the US. They do the booster there at around 14 now, before the student enters high school.

I was in the age group that showed how immunity conferred by the jab wanes.

In the US, most state (and private) schools will not take pupils who have not been vaccinated. Accordingly, I had one MMR jab at 18 months.

So did most of my peers.

Proof of vaccination had to be shown before matriculating into state university as well.

Yet, in 1988, thousands of students at the university I attended - which has a student population of about 50,000 - fell ill w/measles.

So they began introducing a MMR booster to teens.

They also don't do Men C till then, either.

For us, it's a matter of not knowing the cause of our daughter's gross motor skill delays.

She's been fully screened to try to determine why.

She was vaccinated w/the thimerosol-containing jabs.

So we've felt the need to delay dd2s jabs.

cost/benefit ratio to whom. I thought we were meant ot be vaccinating against childhood illnesses to protect others. That's what half this thread has been about. So why not chickenpox? That is nasty for the vulnerable- worse than mumps.

You mentioned flu jabs. A while ago it was suggested that babies were vaccinated against flu to protect the elderly. That was not popular on here. So why? Is it because we only want to protect the young and vulnerable?

I suspect its because we actually don't want to give our kids something that we think could harm them if they're not going to benefit from it. Hmm maybe we're not so different after all.

Spidermama I'm not going to be around much on here for a while- can you email me on [email protected]

You're not flouncing are you, jimjams?

I think jj just means that she won't have much time with the school holidays aproaching!

What was your name before ItalianJob? (can't keep up with name changes lately)

No not flouncing expat, just sometimes think that mnet isn't very good for me at all- just makes me feel more isolated. Am not very good at staying away (I miss SN) but this time am getting advice from Aloha :o

Have got lots of things on as well though.

I have 30 hours help a week (courtesy of social services) this easter so am hoping to have lots of time :o Actually in some ways its harder work as I have to be organised and keep my house tidy.

Feel free to email- I forgot to put it in non automatic readery code so will probably get flooded with junkmail (does google filter it?)

Jimjams - I really don't know how you have the patience for these threads, I really don't. Don't justify yourself to anyone, and don't go away.

xx

Say hello to Aloha for us! She is still missed by some.

Jimjams - hope you're ok. I agree about the flu jabs to babies idea. There was a thread on here about it when the idea was suggested and the general feeling was that nobody would go along with it.

Yes, agree on Aloha. Can she not come back as Hawaii5Ohhh or something?

glad to hear that you've finally got SS to sort out something approaching decent help for you. Now you just need a Hogwart's house elf or a Pratchett Golem to do the housework for you

hi jimjams to answer your questions I mean costs versus benefits in the widest sense - i.e. how much it would cost the NHS i£, how effective it would be, what the side effects of the vaccine might be, what are the risks of contracting chicken pox for the general population etc.
I am interested in protecting the vulnerable, yes - that includes the young, the old, those with disabilities and conditions (inc HIV). I appreciate some of these categories are not vote winners.

Jimjams, I'm probably too late but I am very sorry if I have contributed to your leaving MN, as I suspect I have. I have never questioned, and would never question, your decision to avoid vaccination. I just think it's important that both sides of the debate are aired, since we're on the web, but I can see that it really gets to you, and I can see why. I hope we can agree to disagree and still be friends :(

expatinscotland raises a valid point about the USA.

Amublance chasing lawyers would have a field day if there was any case at all. You're talking of injecting around 4 million US kids per year, so if it passes that filter why the fuss ?

Also, one correlation we've not seen in the media (insert favourite juibe about arts graduates here).

As MMR use has gone down the alleged symptoms have either stayed about the same or in some cases drifted up. The obvious inference is not only does MMR not cause autism, but may even help prevent it.
Actually I don't believe MMr prevents autism (much).
But if you blame X for causing Y, and then reduce X, you ought really to see less Y, not more.

But then the media aren't ever going to own up for causing so many kids to go blind.