what are your feelings on the MMR jab??

[doodypud]

My DD has an appt for her jab on the 3rd of April, i am still really concerned about the possible links with Autism, has anyone else had concerns or any bad experiences?

just to update you all as i started this thread, i have decided to go for the singles, she has her first Measles jab next week and i feel alot happier now i have made a decision one way or another, thanks to all that have responded to this....

Here's an abstract from a reputable peer-reviewed journal giving a rate of 2-3 deaths per 1000 cases, but without an age breakdown:

J Infect Dis. 2004 May 1;189 Suppl 1:S69-77. Related Articles, Links

Acute measles mortality in the United States, 1987-2002.

Gindler J, Tinker S, Markowitz L, Atkinson W, Dales L, Papania MJ.

National Center on Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Georgia, USA.

We used capture-recapture methodology to estimate total deaths and efficiency of reporting for 2 systems. During 1987-1992, there were 165 measles-associated deaths in the multiple-cause mortality database at the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and 184 reported to the measles surveillance system at the National Immunization Program (NIP). We estimated that 259 measles deaths actually occurred; the reporting efficiencies were 64% for the NCHS and 71% for the NIP. Overall the death-to-case ratio was 2.54 and 2.83 deaths/1000 reported cases, using the NCHS and NIP data, respectively. Pneumonia was a complication among 67% of measles-related deaths in the NCHS data and 86% of deaths in the NIP data. Encephalitis was reported in 11% of deaths in both databases. Preexisting conditions related to immune deficiency were reported for 16% of deaths in the NCHS system and 14% in the NIP; the most common was human immunodeficiency virus infection. Overall, 90% of deaths reported to the NIP occurred in persons who had not been vaccinated against measles. During 1993-1999, only 1 acute measles-related death was reported to the NCHS and no deaths were reported to the NIP. This is consistent with the extremely low reported incidence of measles in the United States during these years.

Jimjams ... brilliant posts as ever. I learn so much from your take on these matters. Thankyou.

I get really annoyed when people say those who don't vaccinate can afford not to because so many others are vaccinating.

I don't vaccinate. I don't fear measles. I fear vaccines.

I could say I resent people who vaccinate and make it so much harder for my children to catch and process naturally, and at the correct time in their development, the measles virus.

I don't make such assertions however because I know that, like me, they're doing what they believe is right for their children and I could never hold that against anyone.

I agree SM.

that's interesting jimjams. It is my feeling that, in the event of a measles outbreak, there would be a number of victims among those with HIV and other immune disorders.

I remember having measles as a child, I was terribly ill with very painful rheumatic symptoms in my joints.

You're right, harpsichordcarrier, that's alluded to in the abstract I posted.

Me too bundle, I had awful pains in my eyes too, and light sensitivity.

apparently there is a measles outbreak in medway/kent. info on patient information leaflet i got with ds jab this morning states that "it is possible, but highly unlikely, that M-M-R could cause inflammation of the brain leading to headaches and drowsiness. It should be remembered that this is more likely to be caused by the measles disease itself (one per 2000 cases of reported measles) than by the measles vaccine (one per million doses given).

tamum, i distinctly remember tearing holes in the bedsheets across my knees, trying to get some relief. the light thing, yes i had that too

I am surprised by the assumption that everyone makes choices based solely on what is right for their children. Of course, everyone is entitled to make their own decisions but surely we can recognise that some people make decisions taking the bigger picture into account.
Measles can be a big deal. Rubella can Cbe a big deal. Children and adults can and do die and suffer severe disabilities.
It is one thing to say - I recognise those risks and I am happy for my family to take them and will take the risk of the possible consequences of passing them onto other people, because the risks of immunisation in my case balance out the risks to my children and other people. Fine.
It is quite another to say - oh well it doesn't matter because those risks are not a "big deal." Death and disability are a big deal, whatever their cause. And to say - well I had these diseases, and so did my family and they suffered no harm - is about as helpful as me saying - well my children have been immunised and suffered no harm. So what? That is not mch comfort or indeed of the slightest relevance to those who have suffered vaccine damage.
These are not black and white issues. There are risks on all sides. It does no one any favours to dismiss one aspect of risk out of hand.

I remember having measles as a child- was probably the worst I've ever felt- remember dry retching into a bowl. Also remember that feeling that bad lasted a couple of days, that I enjoyed the rest of my quarantine playing with my friend with whooping cough whilst my mum went back to work and now know that a self-limiting uncomplicated measles is a picnic in the park compared to severe autism. After all no-one wants their child to be ill for the sake of it, we're trying to avoid something worse.

Found these stats- not entirely convinced they're reliable, but the year before MMR introduction in the UK (doesn't give year annoyingly) 42,165 cases of measles - 6 deaths - what's that about 1 in 7000 cases? So either the stats/reporting is going wrong somewhere or measles is getting more dangerous???? Don't know.

No, but equally no-one in their right mind would vaccinate because they didn't want their child to be a bit ill for a week- it's the complications that people want to avoid, same as you want to avoid autism.

My mother's eyes are permanently damaged from an attack of childhood measles.

Ah cross posted- but that's it entirely hapsichordcarrier. It's one reason why I get frustrated by sloppy reporting, how can you begin to make a decision based on risk when you can't even get an idea of actually how dangerous a disease is.

I know that my children are at a consderably higher risk of catching measles than a vaccinated child (basically if they're exposed they'll get it). I also suspect that they are at higher risk of vaccine damage (although the added ingredients scare me more than a monvalent attenuated virus particle or 2 or 3), so what I want to know when making my decision is how likely they are to be killed or rendered disabled by any of the diseases that they can be vaccinated against.

If they're likely to a) catch the disease and b) be left severely disabled or even dead from it then I;d be an idiot not to vaccinate. But I do not want to be scared into vaccination to then find out that oh whoops my hunch was right, they are vulnerable to vaccine damage and oh dear there goes another one. Ah well lets get that DLA form in eh. I know all these diseases can be dangerous- occasionally it keeps me awake at night, but it's not as simple as deciding ah well may as well get it done then. The stakes are too bloody high.

quite so tamum, that's the point.

latest outbreak iirc there's been one death (13 yr old) out of 79 cases, but not sure what time period that's over

I aware of that tamum- my mum is deaf in one ear from measles. As I've said before I don't really care what decison other people make. They'll make whatever one they think suits their family - which is fine. The only decision I struggle with is mine.

The boy who died had immune system problems- and the outbreak was in travellers - a group with low vaccination rates so the sort of group you'd expect to have an outbreak.

yes, I don't underestimate the difficulty of assessing risk in your case jimjams. And I don't envy you those sort of decisions. I certainly don't mean to be flippant about them.

in the event of a measles outbreak the deaths would, no doubt, be concentrated amoing those vulnerable sections of the community - the old and the young, those with immune disorders, those with serious illnesses and disabilities/heart conditions.
My point (sorry to ban on about it) is that there are a lot more of these type of people living in the community than there were even ten years ago. So a measles outbreak could have very serious consequences.

My dd had the jab with no side effects whatsoever.

I remember she got a temp with the jabs they get when babies bit no temp with the mmr.

She is three now and is perfectly healthy in every way.

There is not enough evidence to make me want to risk not giving her the jab.

The number of cases against the mmr is so small.

I did not have to think long about it at all.

Would those people be better catching natural measles as healthy children (then going onto develop chronic conditons)? Ie wouls they have better immunity. Will depend on the condition I guess. Surely following that argument a chickenpox jab should be introduced?

I think that is fair enough, providing it is established that the risk the vaccinated is taking is almost negligible AND- and I bang on about this as well- there is adequate compensation for those who are damaged. Recognition would help as well.

I'm thankfully a while off making the big decision, but I did finally get my hands onthe Lancet article by Dr Wakefield from 1998. One thing which I don't think has been mentioned (but I haven't read all the posts), is that of the 12 autistic children in the study, 8 had parents who attributed the onset of regression to MMR (although time varied from 24hrs to 2 weeks). But 1 parent said it happened following a bout of measles and 1 said it happened after Otitis Media. Does that mean you're damned if you do vaccinate and damned if you don't, if you have a child who you feel is high risk?

What worries me is that I don't know which sources of info to trust, which is why I wanted to read the Dr Wakefield article for myself. NHS info is obviously pro and Jabs info is anti. WHere's the neutral info?

so did anyone read my message that THERE IS A MEASLES OUTBREAK or am i being ignored