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Original poster

I have smacked my child and can't see how I could avoid it... tell me how awful I am

199 replies

Fastasleep · 28/01/2006 20:55

This is sort of a confession of a post, because some people (not many!) might still think I'm a 'goodmum'... but I just felt like I had to say that I've smacked my 23 month old on more than one ocassion, and I probably will again...

I can't seem to help it, it seems like a completely natural reaction and it happens before I even think - I smacked him yesterday on the back of his head, not hard, but a smack, as he sunk his teeth into my arm and drew blood... I've also smacked him forcefully 'off' his baby sister as her scratched at her eyes (he cut her eyeball, I know that's no excuse but still)... I'd like to say I always use the naughty chair, and in 95% of incidents I do, but the times when I don't it happens before my brain even engages.... I don't know how I'm meant to not do it!

Am I a terrible parent who needs anger management? I'm a calmish person...

OP posts:
Enid · 28/01/2006 21:56

is it weird to draw blood though?

am looking at arm imagining how hard I would have to bite to actually draw blood

harpsichordcarrier · 28/01/2006 22:00

O I had completely missed the drawing blood bit
yikes that's painful

blueshoes · 28/01/2006 22:03

If I was bitten, first instinct is to wrench my hand or said body part away?

Salsa, just wanted to let you know that there are people (me included!) who don't practice punishment, whether smacking, timeouts, naughty steps, star charts, withdrawal of privileges, bribes or rewards. Discipline comprises spending lots of time with dd to build up a good relationship (which you are already doing) and then distracting/removing dd from naughty deeds, or when the deed has already been done (as in the examples you gave), to state your disapproval and then get her to help clean up. Natural consequences where possible - eg where dd had deliberately put her foot in her milk, she does not get another one. You say dd is loving, bright, tough and not malicious - you are doing just fine and dd will get there in the end .

Apologies if this is off-thread!

Angeliz · 28/01/2006 22:05

Salsa, why don't you try taking her with you everywhere? I mean everywhere for a few days and explain why your're doing it? Explain that when you can leave her and she won't do anything naughty, then she can stay and watch T.V or whatever she's doing at that time?
I feel awful critisizing(sp?) anybodys methods but i must say, i think the call to the naughty children's home is not a good idea. I do beleive that she needs security in her life whatever she is doing and even though she no longer beleieves you, i think it must be a terryfying thing to hear at 3! Sorry!!
Am preparing myself for namby pamby comments (have had quite a few recently) as i type!

FrannyandZooey · 28/01/2006 22:05

Still don't quite get it HC but I will not hassle you about it now. I do defer to your superior (bitten) knowledge on this one.

Ds has just started to say things like "If you do that I will hit you!" and actually have a go at hitting. I am a bit upset by it but think it is probably because recently we have used discipline such as "If you do x and y then I will do z" (eg take your toy away, put you out in the hall). I think he thinks this is what you do when someone upsets or angers you - you punish them, but the only thing in his power to punish us is to hit us.

It all makes me quite sad. I am trying not to use this method of punishment any more.

FrannyandZooey · 28/01/2006 22:07

Blueshoes, was it you who posted about the Alfie Kohn books recently? I got one of his books recently as a result of that thread and am going to read it soon - I just feel anxious as I think it is going to make me feel guilty about some of the stuff I have done...

blueshoes · 28/01/2006 22:18

Franny, it is aviatrix who has to take the credit for that! Which reminds me to get that Alfie Kohn book ...

getbakainyourjimjams · 28/01/2006 22:19

It is possible to control your reaction if a child hurts you - I know as ds1 has spent the last month drawing blood from me (especially me). You just don't respond ( a scream for him is like all his xmases at once and leads to another immediate attack, so I don';t react 99% of the time and people who do aren't very popular as it just reinforces the behaviour). Mind you my childless friend did say to me last week "ooh has he stopped, your face is looking so much better" (hasn't stopped but has decreased).

The baby is biting me at the moment (teething - he's biting everything), so its a case of guessing which mark has been caused by him, and why by ds1.

I think the thing with any behaviour like this is to see what works to stop it. Shouting "NO" loudly at ds3 does work, but would absolutley not work with ds1 and would make it 100 x worse (he just pinches again immediately shouting "an". School have successfully dealt with it by vigourously shaking hands and saying hello (so treating it as a greeting), which was suggested by the psych. not working here though. DH says I must be doing it wrong, but I can't see that there are that many ways to vigourously shake hands.

But anyway do whatever works, but if the bahvour becomes entrenched then you need to change your response, but don't ask me what to as we're having no luck.

FrannyandZooey · 28/01/2006 22:23

Thanks blueshoes, I would really love to discuss that philosophy with someone sometime. The idea makes such perfect sense to me and yet I find it so hard to actually carry out in day to day life. I think we have all become brainwashed by Supernanny et al and think we are being soft if we allow our children any sort of misbehaviour.

Angeliz · 28/01/2006 22:23

Franny, which book is that? It sounds interesting.

FrannyandZooey · 28/01/2006 22:26

The one I have is called "Punished by Rewards - the trouble with gold stars, incentive plans, A's, praise, and other bribes"

As I say I haven't dared open it yet. I have a feling it could be one of those "oh no" revelations.

QE2 · 28/01/2006 22:28

sobernow - your post: on Saturday, 28 January, 2006 9:39:51 PM

fantastic! - Made me lol

I did similar with ds1 when he was about 5. I told him if he carried on being so naughty then the man in the blue van would come to get him and take him away to the naughty boys place. I opened the front door and threatened to take him out when just at that very moment a blue van drove right by the house. He was hysterical. I promised I would let him come back in the house only if he promised to behave! And he did too!

fwiw re smacking, it works for me when they are about 18mths to about 6 maybe but not much older than that.

Angeliz · 28/01/2006 22:28

I've just finished '3 in a bed' and i was just about to try and get dd a little more..ahem..trained at night. I can't now, am totally with the book!

getbakainyourjimjams · 28/01/2006 22:33

Frannynadzooey- I think it depends on how those things are used, what for (VERY important) and whether the people using them really understand what they are doing. Having a child with severe challenging behaviour I can say without a shadow of any doubt that positive reinforcement (AKA bribing) works better than any other method in securing acceptable behaviour, but you have to be very aware of how you are reacting to every challenge and understand how your reaction may alter the response you get.

I am naturally more continuum concept wishy washy school really (and with ds2 I find talking him round works wonders), but ds1 neds action positive reinforcement, action positive reinforcement. DS3 will need firm boundaries (he's determined) but will see exactly how as he gets older.

harpsichordcarrier · 28/01/2006 22:35

oh god please don't tell me praise doesn't work

blueshoes · 28/01/2006 22:38

Franny, here is aviatrix's thread . Would love to discuss the book with you and Angeliz once I have read it - must get the book!

I think I am a bit of a softie - so it is in keeping with my natural parenting style to not take a hardline and just be patient. Not that I don't lose my temper lol! Far from perfect. I am just doing the unsophisticated stuff that parents did before supernanny came on the scene

lucyhoneybee · 28/01/2006 23:55

i have smacked mine before,but fastasleep, i think 23 months is too young, he won't understand he's been smacked because he was naughty, he'll just think it's ok to hit people. i once hit my dd1, scared myself and locked myself in my car till dh got home 20 mins later- she was 7 and had slightly flooded bathroom (and brought kichen ceiling partly down) whilst splashing in the bath.we still have trubble sometimes and school says she needs 121 time with me more- seems like rewarding naughty brehaviour, but does work. try doing stuff he likes but if he starts being mean walk off and refuse to "play" anymor. when my 2 yr old experimented with a tantrum in a shop today i just said oh, i need to go to a toyshop and walked out. she shut up and followed me.

Mytwopenceworth · 29/01/2006 01:15

you are not a terrible person - but i would say please dont smack a child round the head - it can cause really serious problems.

you are reacting emotionally and it would of course be good if you didnt - even if your parenting choice was to smack it would be better for it not to be done due to your feelings, but as a consistant discipline plan.

I dont think you need anger management, but you might benefit from parenting classes.

please dont think i am saying you are not a good mum - i dont think that! but you have identified an area you want to change and that is one way of getting help / advice to do that.

noddyholder · 29/01/2006 07:52

You shouldn't smack children imo it does no good they don't understand it as anyhting other than violence and I am not sure they would be able to recognise it as a punishment.Everyone losing their rag but I was smacked as a child and just don't think its right

Issymum · 29/01/2006 07:59

Fastasleep, we have a 'no smack' policy, but I have to admit that when DD1 sunk her teeth into my thigh about a year ago I smacked her (she was 3). I can't even remember which part of her anatomy I connected with. It was just so damn painful it was a reflex action.

However, if you find that you are smacking on other occasions or just when, on reflection, you don't want to, you may need to find a strategy to help you stop. Probably counting to 10 rather than anger management classes.

mummytosteven · 29/01/2006 08:42

agree with harpsi and issymum - that the smacking is a shock reaction to a situation that freaked you out. as I think I have said to you before, the time when I was within a hairsbreadth of smacking DS was when I was very shocked and shaken by him deliberately touching (about 2 secs after I told him not too!) what I thought was a hot oven.

btw fa's DS does have quite sharp little canines at the front, so could see a bite being quite nasty.

codnotmud · 29/01/2006 09:48

wonder if never punishing a child thought will leave them

a. spoiled
b in shiock when they get to outside world.

can be arsed with coninutal negotiations and dsitraction - sometimes its good to shout.

enid - mine onmy did it between asy 18 months and 2.5

no idea whya

blueshoes · 29/01/2006 10:01

Actually, cod, experience with negotiating with parents puts children a good stead for negotiating the slings and arrows of the big bad world. Gives them the self-confidence to speak up because they know that their views are important and will be considered - with parents of course reserving the right to say no. Gives them the resilience to keep bouncing back - persistence is a virtue in an adult. No punishment doesn't mean no boundaries. Children are remarkably perceptive and adaptable even at a young age - dd is only 2.4 but already knows how to behave in nursery, with grandparents etc. Of course, she is a work-in-progress but I need to constantly remind myself to give her more credit even though she is a little person.

getbakainyourjimjams · 29/01/2006 11:06

Think it depends cod. I can shout with the best of them. And for one off behaviours I think that's fine. However as soon as something becomes entrenched, you have to start to think about how your reactions and what effect they will have. DS1 is pinching hard enough to leave marks almost 3 years (off and on we have months when it goes away) since the behaviour started because he got shouted at so much when doing it (and some people just could not understand that shouting at him might make them feel better but was doing bugger all to deal with the behaviour and was in fact making it a whole lot worse).

Mercy · 29/01/2006 11:07

I have to say I'm with cod on this one - also partly agree with blueshoes. Trouble is you can also get into a habit of negotiating every single point - my dd, 4.9, excels at this and that has created its own set of problems.

Fastasleep, my ds is 23 months and would have (and have) done hte same as you (not on the head though)