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What do you think about the mumsnet books concept?

258 replies

Enid · 06/11/2001 15:16

I feel odd about it but I'm not sure why.

OP posts:
Pamina · 08/11/2001 13:29

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lisav · 08/11/2001 14:34

Hmmm. I am a bit iffy about the book idea. Well, not the whole idea, just the bit about putting in contributions from chat. I've opened my heart up a few times here too and the things I've said don't exactly make me anonymous. If anyone I knewe were to come on Mumsnet they wouldn't have much trouble finding me!
Maybe I should ask them to change my nickname. But even then I don't want some personal comments I have made to go in. Surely they wouldn't put in really personal stuff would they?

I'd probably buy it anyway out of curiosity.

Lisav · 08/11/2001 14:36

Just seen the comment on a nudey calendar - that would be fun! Count me in!!!

Tigermoth · 08/11/2001 15:06

Justine, I've now sent you my email address via contact us. Fingers crossed!

Tinker · 08/11/2001 23:25

Er, feel a little uneasy, especially personal details. Anyone who knew me would recognise some of my phrases, I think.

Suew · 09/11/2001 00:52

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Justiner · 09/11/2001 11:06

Thought we'd add a message as there seem to be quite a few people who are uneasy about the books idea. First of all bear in mind we won't publish anything you don't want us to - if you want to be excluded you just have to tell us, alternatively if you'd like to change your nickname because it might compromise your annonymity that's fine too.
The idea behind the books is that they offer an alternative source of advice for parents. The USP is that the advice comes from "real" parents with a range of views/ ways of doing things - not just one expert with a particular axe to grind. Readers can benefit from the experience of other parents who've faced precisely the same dilemnas as they have and be presented with a range of ways to solve their problems, and also (and this is just as important we think) take some comfort that their experience is "normal" and that other people have gone through the same things and survived. In other words the books will offer much the same as the website, though obviously without the interaction. If people are engaged/ have further questions then there's no reason, as long as they have web access, that they can't then come and join mumsnet, so in that sense these books will offer more than your traditional parenting manual.
The focus of the content will be on providing answers to frequently asked questions. We are not intending to include discussions which are very personal eg the "miserable mothers" thread - it's useful advice garnered from your experiences we're trying to get at - not personal details/ individual tales.
We're loathed to say too much more, as the contract isn't even signed yet. Please feel free to write to us - [email protected] - if you have further concerns. Also if you are a member and you didn't receive the mail out then it's because either you asked never to receive any mails from mumsnet when you registered, or because you supplied us with a bad email address. To update your details go to
www.mumsnet.com/servlet/mn.MemberProfile
If you didn't receive the books mail out and would like to, please write to us at [email protected]
Thanks again for your support,
Justine, Carrie and Rachel

Lisav · 09/11/2001 14:05

Ok, I can go along with that!

Robinw · 09/11/2001 19:15

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Justiner · 09/11/2001 20:58

Tigermoth, we haven't received a mail from you yet - are you sure it went/ can you send again?
Robinw - to be frank the economics of websites don't work at the moment. Ad rates are pitiful (some work by clicking on them, but only once i.e. the same person can't just go on clicking, others by the number of pages you bring up on the website)and even if everyone was really clued up with how they work and trying really hard it wouldn't be enough to make the site viable. Hence the need for us to look for alternative revenue sources.
We take your point about nicknames. Again I'd say we're not planning to use the "sensitive bits". Our thinking is that using random nicknames would be a bit disingenuous, if we do that we may as well use "user1", "user2" etc or not use any and then we'd lose the sense of the advice coming from "real people", which is, after all our USP. If that isn't enough to convince you can always let us know which thread you're not happy about, and we won't include your contribution.
Justine, Carrie and Rachel.

Kia · 09/11/2001 21:41

I could go for a membership fee if that's what it takes. I also worry though that then we would run the risk of becoming like the WI and not open enough - if you get my drift!! Perhaps a trial run of 3 months then you pay or you can't get into the boards? I like the idea of the Mumsnet book as a resource - with say a section on teething for example and advice from that thread. Does it need to have names on it for that? I know I would have given my husbands left testicle for a book like this when mine were born! After all, if people really want to they can come on the site and see us warts and all! I think the idea that if you really feel a particular thread might identify you then you could let whoever know and it wouldn't be used. My e-mail is shot to hell and back, so I can't update my profile currently, but I'm in favour of a mumsnet book - I've 2 people at least who are in desperate need by Feb 2002!!!

Robinw · 10/11/2001 07:11

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Justiner · 10/11/2001 10:46

We do take your point Robinw, but we don't think, judging from response we've had, that the majority have the same concerns re being identified - very few members have asked to be excluded (though a number want their contributions to be included under a different nickname). As you know, you're free to choose for your comments to be excluded if you're worried - the last thing we want to do rock any marital boats!

All good thoughts re financing - believe me we've pursued/ are pursing/ will pursue all avenues. We've sweated too much blood over the year and a half to let mumsnet go without a hell of a fight! Thanks for all your suggestions/ concern,
Justine, Carrie and Rachel

Chanelno5 · 10/11/2001 12:16

(Sorry I can't type things in a more reader-friendly style, but have just mastered turning the computer on, and this is going to be a long one so bear with me! Here goes:-) I'm a late starter to this thread, but just thought I'd let Justiner (not good at e-mails! and other Mumsnetters know my views. Firstly, I would be more than happy to pay a subscription/ registration fee, infact, I was quite surprised that I didn't have to after visiting friensreunited first! Secondly, regarding the book, I think this is a great idea. Would it be in the format of 'What to expect when your expecting' - ie. questions followed by responses - because I loved that book when I was pregnant. The Mumsnet book could have the advantage over other books by answering unusual and embarrassing questions aswell, the sort of ones that you wouldn't even like to ask your best friend! I think the fact that the books would be largely written by those on the 'frontline' with firsthand experience (that's us lot, incase you were wondering) would be really appealing and much more relevant to 'normal' mothers in everyday situations than the idealistic advice dished out by so-called experts in the usual run-of-the-mill-type baby books. Perhaps justiner, you could give us all a new nickname, so they we could recognise ourselves from our comments, but anyone else who knows our nickname (my dh) wouldn't easily beable to look you up (as you can guess, he wouldn't be too flattered by some of my comments about him!). At the end of each particular topic in the book, there could be a list of helpful contacts and further references so it could also be like a directory for mothers. Reviews of different products would be really helpful too for mothers-to-be and new mothers. Thirdly, as already mentioned by Judith1, what about a monthly magazine, would this be feasible? Could it be in the style of a rag mag or football fanzine (though obviously less rude!) A sort of 'cult' parenting mag, informal and alternative, in the fact that it is written by 'real' mothers who really know what they are talking about. A warts and all look at motherhood, both serious and funny, covering a variety of different subjects - not all to do with children, but still relevant to the modern woman today. Thats what I love about Mumsnet.com, it isn't obsessive about 'baby-talk' all the time, but acknowledges that you are an individual, who still takes an interest in other un-child-related topics. Just a thought, would it be possible to advertise in the antenatal folders that your notes are kept in? I know mine were covered in adverts for various products/services and this way you would reach all first-time and second/third-time etc. mothers. Could people subscribe to 'Mumsnet- The Mag' and receive it through the post? Many women don't have access to a computer so you would reach a much wider audience. Also, a monthly mag would have the advantage over a book in that it would beable to keep more uptodate. Some of the ideas posted on Mumsnet are relevant at the time, but would they sound dated in say a years time? As we all know, ideas on raising children are constantly changing, infact, I noticed a real difference from when I had my 1st (now aged 5) to when I had my 3rd (aged 18 mths) and that was in quite a short space of time. Also, baby products are always changing (think travel systems and 3-wheeler pushchairs - they weren't around a few years ago!) Perhaps Mumsnetters could write articles for the mag as I never ceased to be amazed at the depth of some people's knowledge when they post on different threads - there is a real wealth of untapped wisdom out there! As I said, I really don't know how feasible my ideas would be, they probably sound like the ramblings of a mad woman, so I would appreciate any feedback from anyone who hasn't fallen asleep reading them!

Jodee · 10/11/2001 12:43

Anything to keep Mumsnet going has got to be worth trying. Mumsnet was 'born' the same month as my son - I wish I'd known about it then instead of 12 months later.
If it's just mainly going to be a FAQ kind of thing as JustineR has said, without the sensitive bits, there shouldn't be too much to worry about, but i would consider changing my nickname for the book, so if for example dh wanted to know what I contributed to I could show him, but still keep my anonymity on Mumsnet.
A magazine is also a good idea, as has already been suggested - maybe a bi-monthly or quarterly as well as the book, to keep the suggestions and ideas up-to-date?
I certainly have no problem with a subscription fee either.

Suedonim · 10/11/2001 14:12

Justine's posting contained the comment about the book being an 'Alternative source of advice for parents'........that 'comes from "real parents with a range of views/ways of doing things - not just one expert with a particular axe to grind.'
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One thing of which I am a little wary is the term 'advice'. It's possible that a contributors 'advice' goes against current DOH recommendations, such as on breastfeeding or vaccinations. Would Mumsnet/Mumsnetters be laying themselves open to legal action, if anything went wrong as a result of advice in the book (as opposed to the website, where there is the chance to ask more questions)? Maybe a better term to use would be 'experience' rather than 'advice'. Advice, to me, has a tone of authority to it and I would hate to be regarded as an authority!

Chanelno5 · 10/11/2001 14:25

I suppose it would contain some sort of disclaimer that it's not based on medical advice but rather on real mothers' experiences to help readers come to their own conclusions about things - just because one person suggests it doesn't mean that thay have to do it if they think it's rubbish, just like on the website. I'm sure anything too controversial (ie. whether to vaccinate or not) will not be in it.

Kia · 10/11/2001 14:47

Actually, whilst I agree that we should not lay Mumsnet open to legal challenge or oppose Govt advice, on several occasions now we have all seen on threads where a particular health professional's advice has been decidedly dodgy and that our collective experience has shown that Govt 'advice' is a)outdated and or b)impractical. Look at the doctor who has been doing single vaccines instead of MMR - taken to the BMA and not disciplined because its better than people not having their children vaccinated at all.

My point is that its should be Mumnset experience offered but the reader makes the choice whether to follow it or not. By all means have a disclaimer, but lets not water down the experience on offer. What is the difference of us all offering our experience here and someone goes off and trys it and it doesn't work? Because it's in a book or online doesn't make it any different - just the medium is different.

I really like the idea of a mumsnet directory you could add bits every month, or have a bit where you could print out a particular thread set up to fit in the directory. suppliers like M&S (!) could beg us to come and try out their bra fitting services by offering money off vouchers!! As you say we're talking about a lot of disposable income here!! Well, DH's really!

Suew · 10/11/2001 18:01

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at OP's request.

Joe1 · 10/11/2001 19:11

Suew, I have the NCT breastfeeding book. I found reading about other womens experiences really helpful, especially as I was having trouble with family members who didnt really know anything about breastfeeding and thought it much better ds was on a bottle and formula. It also helped dh, it was very easy to read and he could get all the info he required without reading loads of unimportant text and give me the back up I needed. If the Mumsnet book was laid out on a similar style perhaps more men would read it and give their wives and partners more support with practical knowledge.

Suedonim · 10/11/2001 19:53

Kia, I personally think there is a difference in being online and being in a book. You can't ask more questions of a book and, as others have noted, there isn't the spontaneity and immediacy you get with a chat site.

As for govt advice not always being correct - I agree with you that they make mistakes but I, personally, don't feel knowledgable enough to offer alternative research and evidence-based information to anyone else. I can relate the decision I made in a particular circumstance but I wouldn't advise anyone else to do the same thing. It's up to each of us to weigh up the facts and make our own decision.

I'm not arguing that the book shouldn't happen. My concern is that any remark of mine as may be used is presented as my 'experience' and not as my 'advice' to anyone else. And I'm sure a disclaimer would be included, to cover the legal aspects.

Pamina · 10/11/2001 21:12

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Robinw · 11/11/2001 07:22

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Kia · 11/11/2001 19:05

Yes. that's it Pamina! When you get Govt/health professional literature - its boring, dry and is the govt knows best delivery - patronising at best and arrogant at worst. Our experience is 'live' experience and much more user-friendly because we are prepared to be corrected. If the Govt/health professional advice was user friendly and covered most things in a non patronising way, you wouldn't have a market for childcare experts. I'm not saying we should advocate ignoring everything except what our Mumsnet book says, but what I'm saying is our experience is just as valid. It's not saying this experience works every time - what we are saying is - this experience worked for me. I get the feeling, correct me if I'm wrong - that some people feel that if someone took their advice given on a thread and it didn't work or went wrong, that somehow the person on mumsnet would be held responsible? I don't see how that could be. If that were so I'd be forming a queue right down the highstreet on Penelope Leach alone!

All that said, if people have reservations, they need to be addressed, because this book I am convinced will be a big success and I'd hate for anyone to feel worried in any way at all.

Right, enough said off to do me womanly chores!

Jasper · 11/11/2001 23:38

I have contacted the mumsnet team to make this point already but it seems relavant to this discussion so I will make it again here.
What I really appreciate about this site is it receives contributions from so many people , and noone seems to have a hidden agenda, unlike many parenting sites I have visited which get hijacked by a few very vocal, very politically correct individuals.
I can think about one bulletin board on another site I used to frequent. Almost every query was answered by a particular individual who had a real thing against dairy food. Every sleep eating or behavioural problem was attributed to the mother or the child eating dairy foods, or to not being fully breastfed for long enough ( by a dairy free mother of course) If someone posted a query on that site such as "how can I get my eight month old to sleep all night?" the replies would mostly be of the "You should not expect an eight month old to sleep all night...do not impose your need for routine on your baby...you should allow it to freely breastfeed all night if it wants to". Mumsnet is not like this at all! Any query will get a wide range of helpful replies and there seems to be very little criticism or disaproval of other people's methods or views.
We are a tolerant and helpful bunch at mumsnet it seems! And this would be reflected in a book full of "tips".