Daycare say that my toddler is hard work??

[Mamalunn95]

My partner has just dropped our 19 month old daughter off at daycare which she has now attended for 11 months part time (two half days per week currently). One of the workers in the room has said to him: “I hope C is in a better mood today, she was really hard work yesterday.” Apparently she said it in a quite lighthearted way but to me this isn’t something a nursery worker should say to a parent. I find it quite hard leaving her as it is without the added anxiety that the nursery workers think she is difficult and that I am unable to control her behaviour...

When I collected her yesterday they said that she had been pushing other children and trying to take toys which she wants off them. My understanding as CACHE Level 3 Early Years Educator is that this developmentally appropriate. Although I have only seen her behave this way with her cousins when they are really in her space or snatching from her, she will push them or lash out and we respond to this without negative discipline such as time out. For example, if she becomes overwhelmed and lashes out then we will ask if she remembers how to be gentle and then show her how to be gentle again by stroking her face or our face with her hand and she responds well to this. We also are aware of potential triggers for her which make her behave in an unacceptable way. I think this is what nursery workers should be focusing on rather than telling us she is difficult. If she was a child in my class I would complete repeated observations from when she is behaving unacceptably to identify potential triggers as we know that babies do not have the intention to upset others.

Am I being unreasonable to be offended by this? Or think that it was inappropriate for the worker to make a comment like this?

I’m going to ask to see their discipline policy as I think they use timeouts for the two year old room, which is something my partner and I don’t agree with.

What’s your opinion?

No we don’t have the same approach to discipline - it may be similar but I don’t do “gentle hands” any more and haven’t for a while. And I am mortified when he hits or pushes other children, I don’t minimise it or reward it with attention, i show him my displeasure and move on.

I havent “relished in tearing you down either”, but I must confess that you have irritated me so I apologise if I have been harsh. I suggest you get some support for your PND if you haven’t done so already. You have every right to parent your child how you want and feel confident in your choices, but you do come across rather over sensitive and defensive, which might be a symptom of your PND, but it’s not helpful to you or your DD.

Sounds like total normal toddler behaviour. Nursery staff should have reframed it and said e.g X seemed a bit unlike herself yesterday- was there anything going on? Or just 'X was snatching a little yesterday, have you noticed that at all also? Etc. Better ways to address it OP

Hang on a minute.

Are you honestly saying that when your DD is spiteful towards other children, your answer is to gently stroke her on the face and give her attention?

How would you feel if your DD was pushed by another child?

I think we can all be defensive when it comes to our children. Personally myself I would have phased it as ‘XXX had some challenging behaviour yesterday’

@NameChange30 Thanks for your concern but I’ve had treatment for my PND.

Of course I’m upset when she lashes out but I always see the reason behind it so don’t react too harshly. I’ve explained our approach to discipline so I won’t go over it again.

I suggest if you’re irritated by this topic then you stop commenting as we are obviously going to have to agree to disagree.

But you have come on to this forum to ask if YABU to be offended by the Nursery saying your dd was hard work yesterday. Everyone has said, yes. That is not something to take offence at.

I hate this posters 'stropping' when they don't get the answer they wanted to a question. MN is incredibly supportive when people come on and ask for support with a situation. You didn't. You wanted people to tell you the Nursery worker was terrible and your parenting skills are wonderful. We aren't going to just say "of course you are wonderful" because you are the OP. We are going to be honest. If you don't want honesty, don't ask the question on an anon internet forum. .

You keep going on about this qualification as if you are the only person to ever study childcare. There a LOADS of people on here who work as teachers, TAs, Nursery staff, CC staff, are CMers etc, as well as the overwhelming majority of posters being Mums. There are lots of theories, and you can find 'evidence' to support any theory you like. People will disagree about different ways to parent their dc at every stage, but I can tell you there is no "correct" single way. I can also tell you - in answer to your original post, the staff at Nursery haven't done anything wrong, that you have told us about.

Oh, and CMers will have more than just your child too - it is a Nanny you need if you want 1:1, or you or your dh need to become a SAHP.

I'm still shocked at your claim that time outs result in mental health issues for children, is this an evidence based claim? I'm genuinely interested.

The preschool we used to send dd said awful things when we picked her up, and not in a lighthearted way.

Dp picked her up one day for dinner and they said "can you try and tire her out before you bring her back she's such a pain" We never took her back. One of their complaints was that she got too excited about activities..she was 2 at the time.

It's easy to get offended when someone says something negative about your child, but I think it was just a passing comment and they're not saying she is a pain.

Kids need clear and simple rules.

Stroking her face when she has done something wrong is confusing and for both her and the child that she has just hurt.

Another thing is that you are coming across as if youth, you know more about children and childcare than the nursery staff.

Perhaps your attitude towards them is also causing confusion for your DD.

@Mummyshark2018 thanks this is what I thought, a more positive way of approaching it without increasing anxiety in the parent!

@Bringonspring yes this seperates the behaviour from the child, this is what I’ve learnt in my childcare training and I’d expect from childcare also.

@Persiancatlady you’ve clearly not read the thread. I was referring in my OP to an example of how we teach her to use gentle hands by showing how the pressure, speed, etc. by demonstrating it with her hands and our own. Maybe read the whole thread before posting

It is going to be hard for your dd, she is getting brief snatches of a very different setting with different behavioural approaches compared to her normal settings. A nursery setting will be less focused on a individual DC due to their ratios, on the plus side DC learn how to interact well with others and become part of a group on the down side they do not have a system of naps etc, tailored just to meet their needs. A key worker will learn what works well for your DC and implement that but the staff aren't being given enough time to do that. Our nursery had a minimum attendance of 2.5 days a week to prevent some of these issues.

“I suggest if you’re irritated by this topic”

No, as I said, I’m irritated by you, not the topic

The topic itself is interesting which is why I’ve been posting and reading

It’s especially interesting when people take on board others’ points and don’t just repeat themselves!

And yes I do believe that something at nursery is stressing her as she doesn’t behave like this at playgroups etc. like I’ve said before she comes across as shy and will let other children take her toys.

I’d say it’s quite likely that it’s nursery itself, rather than something specific at it, that’s causing her the stress, as she isn’t there frequently enough or for long enough for it to be an expected part of her routine at her age. It would also take longer to form secure bonds with the staff.

At playgroups - you’re there, so she’s not experiencing the separation so she doesn’t feel out of routine in the same way.

I know it’s tough. Both mine were at nursery four days a week from just before they turned one. DS2 is now nearly 3 and we’ve just had two weeks post holiday of him waking up every day and saying he doesn’t want to go to nursery. It’s a killer, but he’s got great bonds with the staff and has a grand time once I’m gone.

I still wouldn’t be offended if they said at pickup one day that he’d been hard work. Some days he is hard work.

“I hate this posters 'stropping' when they don't get the answer they wanted to a question. MN is incredibly supportive when people come on and ask for support with a situation. You didn't. You wanted people to tell you the Nursery worker was terrible and your parenting skills are wonderful. We aren't going to just say "of course you are wonderful" because you are the OP. We are going to be honest. If you don't want honesty, don't ask the question on an anon internet forum.”

THIS!

@IamMoana Yes please look into it! The use of timeouts was widely publicised in the noughties as an alternative to smacking (which it obviously is better than smacking which is physical abuse). But separating a child from their primary carer and making them feel shame, etc. for a behaviour they haven’t got that much control over isn’t healthy and yes it can lead to mental health issues later in life, anxiety, mistrust of a parent, fear of a parent rather than actually recognising their wrongdoing and respect of parent, etc. Lots of research available

@Mamalunn95
I have read the whole thread actually.

You don't want advice, you want validation and I don't think that you are going to get it here when your answer to your DD's bad behaviour is anything other than a stern "no we don't do that to other children".

My understanding of timeout damage is that it isn't great for DC who have experienced truama and are therefore susceptible to being easily overwhelmed by shame, for DC in care it wouldn't be recommended. However for securely attached DC with no trauma history a time out may created a brief rupture with parents but this is quickly and easily repaired after the time out. So basically unless your DC has a history of damage a time out isn't going to do them any lasting harm.

I thought that the paper that said that time-outs were bad for children was misreported and the authors later verified that they believe that time-outs are effective and unharmful if used effectively?

childmind.org/article/are-time-outs-harmful-kids/

I’ve attached a link which outlines the main reasons why timeouts can affect child mental health

time.com/3404701/discipline-time-out-is-not-good/

I know it’s off topic but for those interested.

Also covered in books like “No Bad Kids” and “Elevating Childcare” by Janet Lansbury and a range of books re. positive parenting from Sarah Ockwell Smith.

She didn't say 'your child is hard work and we don't like her'. She said your child was in a bad mood and that turned into hard work for the staff. Any child can be in a bad mood any day. My 3-year old has days when she is in a bad mood and it is hard. Sometimes they are just tired, recovering from a bug or struggling with a growth spurt. It happens. There's no need to take it personally.

I don't think you are making yourself clear to your dd2 at all, infact I can almost picture what happens when you tell her about "gentle hand" (hate that bloody phrase). Children react to your reactions, they need to be clear on wether you are unhappy or happy with their behaviour, you don't seem to be making this clear by asking if she remembers how to be gentle and stoking each other's faces. She clearly just finds that fun and isn't relating it to the incident itself.
I'm sorry but I just don't believe you work with children who suffer from all those issues because their parents told then it is not ok to hit or be physically violent to other people.

@Persiancatlady Yes there are two different camps it seems when it comes to timeouts but I don’t like the idea of isolating my child in their time of need as outlined in the article and also the books I’ve mentioned. There’s better ways in my opinion but also obviously worse ways (physical discipline)

On collecting DD one day her key worker handed her to me and said “you take her, she’s doing my nut in today”

I took her, smiled and thanked her for looking after her. I said I hoped they had a better day tomorrow. How can I be annoyed at the lass for having had a tough day with my DD, lord knows I’d had plenty of them myself. Dropped her off the next day and the key worker gave her cuddles and smiles and they went off to start the day.

You know your child’s faults. Daycare can hardly be blamed for pointing them out to you and not spending the day stroking the face of a 19 month old who is acting out and upsetting other kids.

@Thatstheendofmytether No, not every child I work with has mental health problems as a result of time outs obviously but when we look at ways that parents have dealt with their behaviour earlier in life or at present it’s often in negative ways (which include time out or other methods which isolate the child). Like I’ve said it’s not the worst method but in my opinion it’s not the best either