Daycare say that my toddler is hard work??

[Mamalunn95]

My partner has just dropped our 19 month old daughter off at daycare which she has now attended for 11 months part time (two half days per week currently). One of the workers in the room has said to him: “I hope C is in a better mood today, she was really hard work yesterday.” Apparently she said it in a quite lighthearted way but to me this isn’t something a nursery worker should say to a parent. I find it quite hard leaving her as it is without the added anxiety that the nursery workers think she is difficult and that I am unable to control her behaviour...

When I collected her yesterday they said that she had been pushing other children and trying to take toys which she wants off them. My understanding as CACHE Level 3 Early Years Educator is that this developmentally appropriate. Although I have only seen her behave this way with her cousins when they are really in her space or snatching from her, she will push them or lash out and we respond to this without negative discipline such as time out. For example, if she becomes overwhelmed and lashes out then we will ask if she remembers how to be gentle and then show her how to be gentle again by stroking her face or our face with her hand and she responds well to this. We also are aware of potential triggers for her which make her behave in an unacceptable way. I think this is what nursery workers should be focusing on rather than telling us she is difficult. If she was a child in my class I would complete repeated observations from when she is behaving unacceptably to identify potential triggers as we know that babies do not have the intention to upset others.

Am I being unreasonable to be offended by this? Or think that it was inappropriate for the worker to make a comment like this?

I’m going to ask to see their discipline policy as I think they use timeouts for the two year old room, which is something my partner and I don’t agree with.

What’s your opinion?

I was a nurseryteacher until I had ds (2.) when ds went through a phase of wanting to snatch/pushing/poking I would bend down, look him in the eye and say short and sharply, ‘no. We don’t push/poke/snstch’ And then physically remove him. That, to me, is discipline that is age appropriate for a 2.5 year old and under. Any child over 18 months (IMO) understands tone of voice and removal. We spent a lot of time demonstrating how to be gentle and praising gentle behaviour, but I would never and still don’t use so many words or give him positive physical attention in an attempt to discipline him.

As an aside, ds also only attends nursery 2 mornings a week and has done so for just over a year now. IMO it has made it much more difficult to settle in - it definitely took well over six months and I’m well aware that nursery staff are never going to have the knowledge of or relationship with him that they do with children who go more regularly. I have actively encouraged them to be brutally honest with me about ds because I want to know if he is behaving worse/differently at a setting where he is out of my control. I wouldn’t be upset if I were you op, I’d be pleased they were being honest with me.

And yes, DS could be bloody hard work at times and I wouldn't have minded being told either, in fact I would rather know!

Yes, YABU.
I would want to know if my dc were displaying challenging behaviour.
They work with a room full of children of that age - yesterday, your dc needed a lot more support than the others. The member of staff mentioned that. All good. Nothing for you to be offended about.

When I collected her yesterday they said that she had been pushing other children and trying to take toys which she wants off them. My understanding as CACHE Level 3 Early Years Educator is that this developmentally appropriate. Although I have only seen her behave this way with her cousins when they are really in her space or snatching from her, she will push them or lash out

No, it isn't appropriate. Yes, some children do it, and then the staff work with the parents to try to work out what the triggers might be, and how they can reduce and then stop those behaviours. It works MUCH better if the parents are on board. This can only happen if the staff tell the parents it is happening

You are much too easily offended - it sounds like your DD was having a bad day (as they all do) and was indeed hard work.

It also sounds like you are not making it clear enough to your daughter that she needs to stop shoving.

However you really don't seem to be listening to all the feedback you are receiving.

Maybe they would find her less of a handful if you supported their hard work at home as well, it goes both ways

I disagree with that statement. As you said yourself, you dint deal with things the same way at home and in a nursery. So there is no reason why the Op should deal with her dd the same way than the nursery does.
‘Supporting the nursery’ Is imo not necessary. Parenting your child is. And affording to parent her in a way that is working for her as individual. (Which of course, nurseries cannot do due to the number of children).

I also have an issue with the implication that what the OP does is just not good enough tbh.
She is a professional too. She knows how to deal wth young children in a professional environment. So why trying to put down her way of doing things as ‘not good enough’ and ‘not supporting the nursery’ (which really means not parenting your child appropriately)

They didn’t say “your child IS hard work”
They said “your child WAS hard work YESTERDAY”

It’s very different.

Like the difference between saying your child is naughty versus your child did a naughty thing.

How can you say it’s working well when she continues to do it?

Tbh none of the methods proposed on that thread seem to be working any better. All the posters are mentioning doing xxx ‘each time their child is snatching/pushing’ which to me says that the behaviour is repeated too and hasn’t stopped.

The only way you can tell if this has worked is over months not after one or two issues.

I usually find that that sort of comment is normally used when someone is using a method that isnt usually deemed ‘appropriate’ (never mind it works for that particular child).
For the simple reason that most of the time the ‘appropriate methods’ don’t work (quickly) either.

I'll go against the vast majority and say I wouldn't have liked our nursery to call DS "hard work" either. Not very tactful at all. Explaining that DD had a bad day yesterday, or she wasn't best behaved yesterday etc would have been better. But I would let it go OP and focus on the actual matter in hand which it sounds like you are doing.

OP you sound like that parent with the perfect child.
No its not normal, other children are getting hurt and thankfully so far not retaliating with violence.
My DC of that age is hard work, too much energy, pushes every boundary going but very rarely hits out or bites and knows fully this is not good behaviour.
Hard work is not an insult its a descriptive.
Time to get firm with DC and stop rewarding them with attention for bad behaviour.

I think I’ve given one example of how we deal with behaviour, we don’t stroke her face to deal with negative behaviour. Of course we say “no”! We don’t just stroke her face and let her wander off happy. We practice positive parenting which is evidence-based and leaves children well-behaved and trusting of their primary carers without the mental health issues that negative discipline such as time outs result in.

But I know that children of 18 months do not have the cognitive development and social development to understand that their actions affect others so I don’t see that defining her behaviour as difficult or hard work helps anyone, they need to look into the reasons why she is pushing, for example when I have seen her push before it’s down to her cousins getting too close to her or snatching in the first place.

Children at 18 months don’t behave badly intentionally to upset anyone; they don’t have impulse control so again rather than saying she was hard work I think they need to be more child-centred??? I am certain she is not the only child who hits or pushes which is the impression I’m getting from other posters, that she is the trouble maker of the class???

Of course they don’t intend to hurt anyone
They still need to understand that they are not allowed to hit/push
But you’re not listening, don’t know why you bothered posting tbh
If you’re such an expert on parenting and can’t bear other people having a different approach I have no idea why you put your child in nursery tbh
Be a SAHP or get a nanny who will be as “child centred” as you want

For example, if she becomes overwhelmed and lashes out then we will ask if she remembers how to be gentle and then show her how to be gentle again by stroking her face or our face with her hand and she responds well to this

So it would appear you don’t say no to the behaviour. You’re being precious.

It sounds like you've made your mind up op so maybe have a word with the nursery if that will make you feel better, you're clearly not getting the answers you want on here.

Your parenting is absolutely spot on imo, and the way you respond to your child is completely appropriate for her age. However you are totally overreacting . You said yourself it was lighthearted ("hard work yesterday" and "your child is difficult" are not the same thing) and you're overthinking it.

If you raise this with the nursery they won't want to discuss things with you.

I think maybe your interest/expertise in this area is making you a little precious.

If you place your child in childcare they have to focus on the collective wellbeing of all the children - not design a special individual programme for your child. So forget your special concern about the times your child needs to sleep - that's not always possible in a group setting.

In my experience children who have so much special focus on them from parents can be difficult in a group setting since the focus all on them doesn't place an emphasis on give and take, sharing, consideration of others, politeness and discipline. Be careful that your interest in child development doesn't over emphasise their individual importance over social skills and compromise with others. Otherwise you risk having an assertive but selfish and unpopular primary school child.

Take the nursery's advice and listen to their feedback. Your child was hard work. And not considerate to other children. Focus on that not the staff. Your child is no more important than anyone else's.

I’m really comfortable with the way we discipline DD, DF and I are on the same page with regards to discipline and the “theory” behind the ways we respond to her behaviour (which some people are being deliberately obtuse in suggesting we just stroke her face).

The reason I have posted this is because in my view and based on my training, children should have a keyworker who works with them on their behaviour and their individual routines. We pay £200 a month for the two mornings and whilst we don’t expect nursery to parent our child, I would at least expect them to follow her routines including sleep in order to have her at her best for activities, learning, behaviour wise, etc.

Obviously it seems that across the board it’s unreasonable to expect that child-centred care from a nursery which conflicts with my views as a children’s senses worker where all of our work takes place with the child at the centre.

I am predominantly seeking input as to whether this is just an example of a nursery not meeting expectations of parents or whether this is the case in general for nurseries. Since this morning I’ve spoken to other staff in my setting who have had placements in my daughter’s nursery and have observed workers shouting at two year olds to get into lines, shouting at two years olds for their behaviour, etc. so my current priority is to visit other nurseries to find a nursery with a different behaviour policy.

And just to add that I don’t want any more criticisms on my parenting as like I’ve said the methods we use are evidence based. I don’t agree with upsetting my child in order to bully them into social norms. I am aware that this isn’t the popular method of discipline as made popular by super nanny etc.

But please be aware I work with children who have been at the receiving end of this type of discipline and the effects are lack of resilience, fear instead of respect, mistrust of parents, etc.

Sorry should read children’s centre worker.

Oh here we go, you don't like the answers you've got so suddenly the nursery staff shout at kids. Of course they do.

Weeeel then maybe you should stay home and look after your own kid then. Not sure why you're not since you're the best at it

“Since this morning I’ve spoken to other staff in my setting who have had placements in my daughter’s nursery and have observed workers shouting at two year olds to get into lines, shouting at two years olds for their behaviour, etc. so my current priority is to visit other nurseries to find a nursery with a different behaviour policy.”

Well there’s clearly a much bigger issue than just saying your DD was “hard work” yesterday.

Given that you’re a childcare professional I’m surprised you didn’t do more research, talk to colleagues and check discipline policies before choosing a nursery for your DD.

But what do I know, apparently I’m scarring my son for life because I tell him no when he hits others

Flip it round the other way and think how you would feel if it was your DD who had pushed repeatedly at nursery and had their favourite toy snatched out of their hand by the same child. Would you be happy that the nursery had intervened and had mentioned to the parents that the other child had been playing up the previous day? Or would you have preferred that nothing much had been done

Social norms such as not hitting or snatching?

Right, okay doke.

I'll mention this to my under confident 19/17 years olds and see whether they feel insecure, intimidated, or mistrustful about their upbringing as we all sit together on the sofa then.

For being told, quite firmly occasionally, not to push or snatch.

However, if you've issues with the nursery based on anecdotal evidence then I'd raise them. Given you work in similar circumstances, I'm sure you'd understand this would be upsetting to witness and both sides would need fair hearing.

@NameChange30 from your post I think we have the same approach to discipline?

We tell my daughter no, we remove her from the situation, help her to identify her emotions (obviously this will be more so in future), we show her how to use her hands gently (which is where people have misconstrued the stroking her face), we model positive behaviour. I think you’ve gotten the wrong impression 😂

I’ve been really impressed up til now with the nursery my daughter attends. My colleagues at work have kept quiet up until this point; she started nursery the same day as I started my job so obviously I didn’t have the input from my colleagues when choosing a nursery.

To make it clear. My problem is with the way the worker has said “she was difficult” rather than specifying her behaviour and how they dealt with it. Obviously I would be upset if another child had pushed my daughter and I know that her cousins push her often and snatch from her, etc. but like I’ve said before I know that it’s what toddlers do?