Daycare say that my toddler is hard work??

[Mamalunn95]

My partner has just dropped our 19 month old daughter off at daycare which she has now attended for 11 months part time (two half days per week currently). One of the workers in the room has said to him: “I hope C is in a better mood today, she was really hard work yesterday.” Apparently she said it in a quite lighthearted way but to me this isn’t something a nursery worker should say to a parent. I find it quite hard leaving her as it is without the added anxiety that the nursery workers think she is difficult and that I am unable to control her behaviour...

When I collected her yesterday they said that she had been pushing other children and trying to take toys which she wants off them. My understanding as CACHE Level 3 Early Years Educator is that this developmentally appropriate. Although I have only seen her behave this way with her cousins when they are really in her space or snatching from her, she will push them or lash out and we respond to this without negative discipline such as time out. For example, if she becomes overwhelmed and lashes out then we will ask if she remembers how to be gentle and then show her how to be gentle again by stroking her face or our face with her hand and she responds well to this. We also are aware of potential triggers for her which make her behave in an unacceptable way. I think this is what nursery workers should be focusing on rather than telling us she is difficult. If she was a child in my class I would complete repeated observations from when she is behaving unacceptably to identify potential triggers as we know that babies do not have the intention to upset others.

Am I being unreasonable to be offended by this? Or think that it was inappropriate for the worker to make a comment like this?

I’m going to ask to see their discipline policy as I think they use timeouts for the two year old room, which is something my partner and I don’t agree with.

What’s your opinion?

I don’t disagree with your approach to parenting, but you’re coming across as quite sanctimonious. It seems to me that this nursery is not a good fit for your family, so find somewhere different and be sure to do your research so you are confident that their approach will fit with yours.

I will say, however, that in my experience there needs to be a little bit of give and take. For example, I choose not to say ‘good boy’ to my children because I don’t like the good/bad dichotomy. I compliment the behaviour or action instead. Their childminders and extended family all day ‘good boy’. I let it go because it’s not a hill I want to die on.

If you are genuinely unhappy with the nursery and feel they are not meeting your child’s needs, fair enough, but I think you have to ask yourself which battles are worth fighting. Light-heartedly being told that my child was hard work the previous day would not be a battle worth fighting for me, probably because it’s likely to be the truth. Sometimes they are hard work!

and whilst we don’t expect nursery to parent our child, I would at least expect them to follow her routines including sleep in order to have her at her best for activities, learning, behaviour wise, etc.

Then you need to employ a nanny. In a Nursery there will be compromises, as the member of staff in the baby room will be looking after 3 children. They will do their best to work with parents, but your child isn't in a 1:1 situation, they are in a 1:3 ratio.

I don’t agree with upsetting my child in order to bully them into social norms.

Then you are in for a life of conflict. All children have to learn they can't snatch things off other children, and that they can't push other children. The social norm in my world is to be kind to other people. You start learning to do that from very, very young. No, little ones won't get it right all the time - that is why they have to learn.

Your child is not going to get the same 1:1 attention at nursery. She has to fit into their routines re naps etc. If you don’t like this fact then you’ll need a nanny.

@BackforGood absolutely and we will often say “That wasn’t kind” as opposed to saying “That was naughty”. I just don’t believe that labelling a child as difficult or hard work is conducive to getting the best out of a child.

My preference would be to have a childminder but there’s very few in my local area all of which are at capacity.

You need to stay at home and parent your child.
You will never find a childcare provider who thinks teaching a child not to be violent to others is bullying them into social norms.

@Josiebloggs there are ways of teaching children not to be violent without shaming or manipulating a child (although violent is a very strong word for the behaviour she has actually been showing)

“ I just don’t believe that labelling a child as difficult or hard work is conducive to getting the best out of a child.”

For the last time, no one has labelled your child as anything. They said she was hard work yesterday. That’s describing the behaviour - although it could have been phrased better; they should have said her behaviour was difficult.

The more you repeat yourself the more loony and precious you sound.

I really don’t think you’ll find a nursery to meet your requirements. I’m not sure about a childminder either.

You say that your method of parenting is evidence based etc but so are other methods. What you are describing can’t possibly work in a group setting. It’s just not practical at all.

Sorry but neither of my children ever pushed or hit others even at this young age. If they had it would have been a firm no with eye contact. It doesn't look like your approach is working if she is still pushing and hitting. I would not have been happy for either of my children to have been pushed by another child at nursery, nor for them to have toys snatched off them.

@NameChange30 really don’t think there’s any need for that sort of name-calling. You’ve made your point thanks

Pushing and lashing out is violent if they are 19 months or 19 years. Yes they struggle to control emotions at 19 months and pushing, hitting and biting can and does happen but if its happening regularly as your initial post seems to suggest then your discipline isn't working.
I don't shout but will strongly tell them that it is not suitable behaviour, remove them from the situation and make them apologise. Its not shaming or manipulating, its teaching them to be decent respectful little people.
I think if you feel as strongly as you do you need to stop leaving your child with carers and stay home with them.

please be aware I work with children who have been at the receiving end of this type of discipline and the effects are lack of resilience, fear instead of respect, mistrust of parents, etc.

I think you need to be aware that you are on a forum for mothers. Mothers who have been there and are trying to give you the benefit of their experience. They are advocating tried and tested technics that have worked well for their own DCs.

@converseandjeans That’s great for you that your children didn’t hit, actually I wouldn’t describe what she does as hitting it’s more lashing out to get people away from her, and as above that’s the approach we take with an extension to demonstrating how to be gentle. But it is something that is common in children of this age as they don’t understand why the other child is upset and they have poor impulse control.

“@NameChange30 from your post I think we have the same approach to discipline?

We tell my daughter no, we remove her from the situation, help her to identify her emotions (obviously this will be more so in future), we show her how to use her hands gently (which is where people have misconstrued the stroking her face), we model positive behaviour. I think you’ve gotten the wrong impression 😂”

No I didn’t get the wrong impression. I just read the actual words you wrote in your post!

“For example, if she becomes overwhelmed and lashes out then we will ask if she remembers how to be gentle and then show her how to be gentle again by stroking her face or our face with her hand and she responds well to this.”

You have now changed your description / explanation of your approach to discipline. But what is consistent is your obvious sense of superiority, even to the extent that you accuse people of misunderstanding with a laughing emoji, when it’s you not explaining yourself clearly.

I think it’s very clear that you’re hard work tbh, and that’s not the kind of thing I’d usually say.

I hope you find alternative childcare that you’re happier with.

@Josiebloggs She goes to various groups with me when I’m not working and we visit friends with similarly aged children, and she doesn’t behave like this when she’s with me so I think the nursery experience is overwhelming for her (despite attending nearly a year). In fact my concern a month or so ago was that she was shy as she doesn’t approach other children and she would just let children snatch from her.

Two things:

First, saying your child was hard work is describing her behaviour. She was hard work yesterday. They are not labelling her ‘difficult’. They are saying that she had a tough day yesterday, she was lashing out and pushing. They told you about the behaviour because it’s important you know about the behaviours she’s displaying at nursery , so you know whether there’s also a pattern at home or so you can let nursery know it’s only happening there so the stressor must be nursery.

Second, two half days in a week seems really difficult for a child her age. My kids’ nursery won’t take children under 3 for less than three days a week; they feel that less than that is not beneficial to the child as they don’t get enough time to settle properly. You complain that they’re not following her routine but a half day at nursery twice a week seems counterintuitive to routine. 19 months is peak separation anxiety age. Could she be finding nursery stressful?

Your approach isn't working and you know it, hence why you are so defensive about a throwaway comment made about your dd's behaviour.

I understand your approach, but honestly, it's overkill - the initial message of the reprimand is lost amongst the 'kind hands' stroking and the encouragement to identify feelings. She has done something wrong, the unpleasant 'no' is then followed up by a lot of attention and pleasantries which she will like. So 'no' isn't such a bad thing after all, is it?

You can still use gentle parenting, but as your DD gets older the approach needs to evolve with her. She's now learning what I outlined above which will lead to further issues in the future.

A short, sharp 'shock' is needed as a reminder about what is acceptable. Then move quickly on, don't dwell. Any attention is attention.

@NameChange30 Actually as someone whose suffered PND having confidence in my parenting even as a childcare professional is something I’ve struggled with. So I think the sense of superiority you’re suggesting is actually just that confidence that as a mother I know the best way to respond to my child. Yes I know that not everyone agrees although it sounds like you use the same techniques. You keep referring to my original EXAMPLE of one method we use which is showing her how to be gentle with our hands and her hands, obviously I have provided additional information for posters who are being deliberately obtuse in saying that I just stroke my child when she misbehaves????? Absolutely ridiculous. Mumsnet for mums supporting mums... yeah right. You’ve relished in tearing me down even though we have the same approach to discipline???

I'd take that as a useful heads up. Maybe that behaviour isn't seen at home but it's worth knowing about.

You come across as you have experience in EYFS that puts you above those that are actually caring for your child. I think you need to let them get on with their job.

I work in childcare and yes children are sometimes hard work including my own.

You talk about your child a lot but what about the parents of the children who are been pushed about by your child. Yes they are impulsive at that age but that doesn’t mean they don’t need to learn and telling a child no is not humiliating them.

In fairness she probably struggles with nursery because their childcare techniques and general day to day things are so much at odds with your treatment of her at home. Expecting children to get in a line or sit in a circle is the norm at nursery or preschool because there is so many children and because its the most basic of discipline. Thats not meant as a critism just that it may be very confusing for her. You could try another setting or give it longer till you leave her in childcare.

OP it's pretty obvious that you want to be the one caring for your child full time. Is there no way you can't make that happen? They're not little long and it's clear you won't be happy with anything other than one to one exactly the way you want it.

You can't force a replication of yourself.

@JassyRadlett thank you for some actually relevant advice! She only attends two mornings now but has attended more in the past, due to financial constraints we can only afford two mornings per week and she’s cared for by grandparents the rest of the week (M, T, W). In October I’m due a pay raise so I’m looking to put her in two more mornings per week, and from her second birthday she will attend preschool everyone morning. So unfortunately although I know just two mornings aren’t ideal for her or the staff, it’s something which will hopefully be temporary!

And yes I do believe that something at nursery is stressing her as she doesn’t behave like this at playgroups etc. like I’ve said before she comes across as shy and will let other children take her toys.