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Neurodiverse Mumsnetters

Use this forum to discuss neurodiverse parenting.

So DONE with MN ablism / stereotyping

163 replies

AffIt · 17/03/2022 19:35

I'll start:

Problem = X
Solution = "They must be autistic because..."

They don't like wet food
They don't like wearing socks
They shout when I'm in the bathroom
They cancelled a trip
They sometimes look to the left when I'm speaking to them

Please feel free to add your own 'FFS, really?' here.

OP posts:
BoardLikeAMirror · 17/03/2022 19:58

They are an 'unfriendly' work colleague
They are a stranger who unreasonably shouted at the OP in the supermarket
They are a DH who is 'obsessed with his hobby'.

Concestor · 17/03/2022 20:00

They are rude

Mrspepperpoi · 17/03/2022 20:06

*They have poor hygiene
*They are rude and unfriendly
*They are obsessed with a certain hobby

The list goes on and on really. I'm really fed up of these kind of judgments aswell

Clarice99 · 17/03/2022 21:16

Absolutely agree with the thread title

So DONE with MN ablism / stereotyping

I have made SO MANY reports about posters jumping in to say that abusive partners, mainly men, must be autistic implying that all people with autism are abusive. NO THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!

The shit I read on this forum often makes me feel physically sick.

He/she must be autistic because:

*They're filthy, have zero personal hygiene routine
*They're physically abusive
*They're emotionally abusive
*They can't manage to control their temper and lash out
*They shout at their children
*They're crap parents
*They refuse to seek medical/dental attention
*They refuse to speak to people
*They're self absorbed
*They pursue unusual hobbies

Just because someone displays one or more of the above does NOT mean they are ND.

I could go on, but I need to stop and wind down for bed as I have an early start tomorrow.

Chickenkatsu · 17/03/2022 22:59

I once saw one where she said her DH must be autistic because he had two cans of WD40 and he only needs one.

AffIt · 17/03/2022 23:50

@Chickenkatsu

I once saw one where she said her DH must be autistic because he had two cans of WD40 and he only needs one.
No such thing as too much WD40 (or duct tape).
OP posts:
AffIt · 17/03/2022 23:52

@Clarice99

The shit I read on this forum often makes me feel physically sick.

I completely agree.

OP posts:
SheldonsStainedSpot · 18/03/2022 00:43

“He doesn’t care about my feelings”
“No empathy? Must be autistic!”

The no empathy stereotype drives me mad.

DoubleGauze · 18/03/2022 04:13

I think what gives me the rage the most is when people say that we're all a little autistic.

When your life is severely impacted by food issues , struggling to fit in with society and huge sleep problems that's really hard to hear.

Clarice99 · 18/03/2022 07:54

I think what gives me the rage the most is when people say that we're all a little autistic.

I agree. That comment is beyond offensive Angry

The ignorance displayed by NT's people is sometimes astounding.

EssexLioness · 18/03/2022 08:29

The empathy one drives me mad. Where does this myth come from? I am incredibly empathetic, in fact often I am so affected by this I wish that I did lack empathy. Things happening to others affects me massively.
Also the ‘bit autistic’ drives me bonkers. My lovely MIL has used this so many times, even when I’ve tried to explain it to her. I find it so offensive and dismissive of the genuine struggles I have been through.

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 08:48

I've always maintained armchair diagnoses erodes the definitions of health conditions. The worst form of erosion is when the diagnosis becomes synonymous with any trait which is negative in someone else. So many health conditions end up being branded as an insult. And then the health conditions has to be renamed.

People always think they have an excuse. Some sort of expertise. Without actually having any expertise. However, the fact is no one can consider themselves to have any health condition until it is officially diagnosed. The diagnostic process is rigorous for good reason. People have training for good reason. Heath conditions can have huge impact on lives.

Yes, some traits of autism are shared by non autistic people. Not surprising. There are many things people have in common with each other as human beings. Sharing some personality traits with someone who is autistic doesn't mean you or anyone else has autism.

Scautish · 18/03/2022 09:41

Yes it’s very wearing

Perhaps mumsnet should just have an “is he autistic” button on all threads given how common it is.

The boldness with which people feel free to speak out against us, stereotype us and blame us is the shocking part. It really is like we are not deserving of being treated in same way as NTs - that our “behaviour” means we bring it upon ourselves.

I’ve actually been told not to read threads if they upset me by MNHQ. They they patronisingly told me they could show me the “hide thread” button. I thought that was very revealing with regard to their views of us.

BishopBrennansArse · 18/03/2022 09:43

I've been round these 'ere parts over 15 years and it's always been the same...

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 18/03/2022 10:04

This honestly doesn't bother me because I don't believe the inference is ever that ALL ND people are or do these things, only that they can be present in the behaviours of ND people.

It's for the same reason that I don't get annoyed by suggestions that rudeness, indifference, being aloof, lacking compassion, or having absolutely no interest in the lives of other people can be signs of a ND person. Nobody seriously suggests that ALL ND people are the same, but can these things be present in ND people? Yes, absolutely, I'm one of them.

Just because YOU don't act the way being described doesn't mean it's offensive to suggest some NT people might, because in my experience we're every bit as individual as NT people, and yes, some of us do act in a way that's perceived as being an arsehole to others thanks to our autism.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 18/03/2022 10:05

some ND people obvs

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 10:33

It's for the same reason that I don't get annoyed by suggestions that rudeness, indifference, being aloof, lacking compassion, or having absolutely no interest in the lives of other people can be signs of a ND person. Nobody seriously suggests that ALL ND people are the same, but can these things be present in ND people? Yes, absolutely, I'm one of them.

It's good that you don't get annoyed. However, I think it's the inference that these traits are definitive of neurological diversity that is offensive to people. Of course, it is correct that ND people can have these traits as can NT people.

Comefromaway · 18/03/2022 10:37

I actually find posts like this MORE offensive as when I read things about people that are, to me a red flag, or remind me strongly of difficulties i and my family have, it is in indication that it MIGHT be yet another, undiagnosed, masking adult who is being villified.

Surely an awareness that some traits MIGHT be due to undiagnosed autism is a good thing when it comes to promoting tolerance, awareness & adjustments.

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 10:47

Surely an awareness that some traits MIGHT be due to undiagnosed autism is a good thing when it comes to promoting tolerance, awareness & adjustments.

I think it's essentially a balance. On one hand you don't want an erosion of the definition of autism,the extreme example of this is when it starts being bandied around like an insult. On the other you want people to be tolerant and aware of other people's difficulties and willingness to make adjustments.

My conclusion is we can be tolerant without attempting to diagnose. People can have all sorts of health conditions and it doesn't necessarily require a diagnosis to help. Approaching people with an open mind and deferring judgement of them helps. Observing common difficulties and asking disability groups what sort of things can be potential barriers also helps. People rarely walk around with a big sign on them and they shouldn't have to so, realistically, this is all we can do until we know an individual personally much better.

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 10:49

Sorry, my last post applies to every condition not only autism.

Comefromaway · 18/03/2022 10:55

the extreme example of this is when it starts being bandied around like an insult.

Well yes, according to a former Stage theatre critic in a recent review using the term behaving “like an autistic seal” is not meant to be a slur!!!

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 18/03/2022 11:11

@hihellohihello

It's for the same reason that I don't get annoyed by suggestions that rudeness, indifference, being aloof, lacking compassion, or having absolutely no interest in the lives of other people can be signs of a ND person. Nobody seriously suggests that ALL ND people are the same, but can these things be present in ND people? Yes, absolutely, I'm one of them.

It's good that you don't get annoyed. However, I think it's the inference that these traits are definitive of neurological diversity that is offensive to people. Of course, it is correct that ND people can have these traits as can NT people.

Well that, I think, is the reason I don't get annoyed. I can't recall a single instance where it was inferred that these traits are definitive, rather more that it was a proposition asking if the OP had ever considered that they might be indicative of the fact the subject might be an as yet undiagnosed ND person.

If someone was to say something as definitive as "well, obviously because he doesn't tell you he loves you and shows no interest in your sister's children he MUST be autistic" then yes, I'd laugh that out of town as being completely ridiculous, no doubt be a bit annoyed by it, and if I was in the mood probably challenge it, but most of the time these things are a simple suggestion that perhaps there might be something in play that the OP hasn't considered, nothing more.

I think it's 99.9% of the time a genuine attempt to perhaps be helpful and contribute something that stems from a good place. After all, just how many ND people with absolutely no diagnosis do we think there are as opposed to the numbers of confirmed ND people? It's a hugely under-recognised phenomenon, so I don't think it's in any way strange that people often posit "have you considered?" and such.

I agree that some of the more trivial reasons for suggesting an undiagnosed ND condition are ridiculous, and there does seem to be a trend for internet diagnosing autism in strangers based on nothing but the flimsiest and most scant of information. The things I'm talking about are mentioned further up the thread, not liking one specific foodstuff, not wearing socks, and so on, but for more significant personality traits that absolutely can be present in ND people, no, I don't find it offensive in the slightest if someone asks if it's ever been considered that the individual might be ND.

To be honest, I find the usual slew of mumsnetters chipping in with 'no, he's just an arsehole' far more offensive. People do not act like arseholes, harm others, or go out of their way to offend just on a whim. Human beings simply aren't like that. There's invariably an underlying cause or reason for those behaviours, so to write it off as something that just naturally occurs for no reason whatsoever is puerile and contributes nothing whatsoever to the discussion. It's the same as the sort of 'just because' answers that you get from 4 year olds.

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 11:35

@XDownwiththissortofthingX, I think it's the unsolicited advice aspect than can be galling concerning armchair diagnosis.

People often offer unsolicited advice when they really don't want to help they just want to rid themselves of the worry that they personally might have to. So, they want a diagnosis, an official 'solution', funding etc so they don't have to make any extra effort regarding a perfectly reasonable adjustment.

So for that reason, no one like unsolicited advice. It makes them feel like they are the problem. They've not done enough to solve whatever problem they might have. When in fact life can be difficult for all sorts of reasons including the process of being diagnosed.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 18/03/2022 11:51

@hihellohihello

I can understand that. I wonder though if there aren't also occasions where an unsolicited suggestion leads to a 'lightbulb' moment. I mean, if someone has no experience of ND, if it hasn't ever occurred to them to consider it might be a factor, then perhaps some outside source suggesting 'have you ever considered...' might be the catalyst for a bit of further introspection.

Again, I do totally get why the constant suggestion that everything is down to ND on mumsnet rankles, and a lot of the time the logic is stretched beyond credibility, but I don't believe it's intended to be offensive, so I have a hard time being offended by it.

I take on board your point about the fact that there might be times where someone is using a diagnosis as a crutch to avoid the need to make an undesirable change. I sort of went through this with my ex partner. They had a real struggle dealing with the peculiarities of my personality which I view as an inherent part of who I am, whereas to them they are just annoying 'behaviours' that they truly believed I could moderate and change. I struggled for years with the internal conflict of knowing that I was acting in ways that upset my partner, but in truth they might as well have been asking me to grow six inches in height, learn how to levitate, or turn invisible on demand for all the control I had over these things. I realised eventually that I was far happier being away from that pressure and being able to live what, for me at least, is a perfectly typical and ''normal" life without someone breathing down my neck about my behaviours. So for that reason, yes, I can understand why it might be perceived that autism, ADHD and so on might sometimes be posited as an 'excuse', but at the same time I'm not a fan of the idea that it's ok to expect or presume that people have to inherently change something entirely natural to them just to please others. All relationships involve compromise to some degree, but there are some things that it's unrealistic to expect to change without serious adverse consequences. Expecting ND people to 'not be so ND' is one of them, and the reason why I don't really 'do' relationships with NT people any more.

hihellohihello · 18/03/2022 12:44

I can understand that. I wonder though if there aren't also occasions where an unsolicited suggestion leads to a 'lightbulb' moment. I mean, if someone has no experience of ND, if it hasn't ever occurred to them to consider it might be a factor, then perhaps some outside source suggesting 'have you ever considered...' might be the catalyst for a bit of further introspection.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about this. I think they'd have to be living in a vacuum!

So for that reason, yes, I can understand why it might be perceived that autism, ADHD and so on might sometimes be posited as an 'excuse', but at the same time I'm not a fan of the idea that it's ok to expect or presume that people have to inherently change something entirely natural to them just to please others. All relationships involve compromise to some degree, but there are some things that it's unrealistic to expect to change without serious adverse consequences. Expecting ND people to 'not be so ND' is one of them, and the reason why I don't really 'do' relationships with NT people any more.

Incidentally that isn't my take on it, although I do recognise it happening sometimes. I just think official entitlement to help, which involves the qualifier of official diagnosis, always comes at a cost. Perceptions of the individual's potential are altered. This can be a relief however it can also be limiting.