So DONE with MN ablism / stereotyping

[AffIt]

I'll start:

Problem = X
Solution = "They must be autistic because..."

They don't like wet food
They don't like wearing socks
They shout when I'm in the bathroom
They cancelled a trip
They sometimes look to the left when I'm speaking to them

Please feel free to add your own 'FFS, really?' here.

Yes - it is a huge fear for them. The number of threads where I’ve seen people warn off someone from dating an autistic person because of risk of having an autistic child. How must that feel for parents of autistic children who actually love and respect their children?

I'm trying not to generalise here, but given the self-reported income of some on this site, I think ND terrifies them so much because it's one of the only problems they can't buy their way out of. They're risking their cosy little bubbled existence when they struggle to find a nanny with sen experience, when their snootier friends drop them like a hot potato when their kid doesn't mix well with others, and their job and all the related perks when their kid can't settle in a mainstream school. You can't just pay someone to sort it out for you and you have to step up and parent.

Yeah, it must cause them some worries because how will they appear to the other parents if little Johnny can't go to birthday parties or play football. I suppose a NT is judged by their social status, abilities and skills. ND is associated with being a loner, anti social, weird, oddball and dysfunctional, but when you get talking to ND people, we're not any of those things. Reading someone's behaviour in such a superficial way is so lazy.

Does anybody care for or mix with autistic people who have higher care needs? I've only cared for autistic people who have accompanying learning disabilities, so I have no experience with other autistic people. Can the approaches we take to handle our own difficulties work for other types of autistic people? Like, a quiet, low key environment, routine, no excess conversation, busy shops, bright lights etc.? I'd hazard a guess these things would help.

I worked with a woman whose niece was autistic and had quite high care needs and the dad wanted the family to have a 'normal family holiday', so they went to Disneyland Florida 😱 of course it was a disaster and the girl didn't cope. How much do parents cause plainly avoidable triggers for their autistic dcs?

I'm surprised we've not had an influx of 'autism mums' after this afternoons conversation. Adult autistics talking about autistic kids seems to really piss them off.

I really do think with NT parent, ND child families that one of the main issues is the parent is embarrassed by the child's behaviours. The posts on here seem to be from parents trying to stop their child making noises, trying to get sensory input etc, rather than working with them to regulate using the stims they like.

My own mother is a terrible parent to my autistic brother. He's got learning disabilities too and she shouts at him for rocking and doesn't try at all to help him experience the world.

I wish there were more detailed posting guidelines relating to disablism - like there are for the 'sex and gender' board in feminism.

Parents don't operate in isolation. There are societal pressures to 'fit in' which is difficult when their child requires something different to what others expect. They get accused of being a bad parent when their child needs to be kept safe in a buggy or has a disabled badge but hidden disability. They get accused of causing their child's behaviour (even remotely when their child is at school). Historically autism was said to be caused by attachment difficulties with (you've guessed it) the mother. Other parents get jealous when their child has additional help from teaching assistants. This can be incredibly isolating.

Not saying all parents of children with ND are perfect but their are challenges because society is not set up for ND people or their parents. Nt because they are all terrible. The parents are forced to advocate constantly for their child when (often) all they want to do is love their child and be their parent.

The NT parents have got more chance of obtaining help for their child than the ND parents of ND children. We have no chance whatsoever in many cases and we're totally left alone and even gaslighted by the authorities. Personally that didn't prevent me from being a child centered parent and addressing the individual child's needs. Perhaps it's different for NTs 🤷‍♀️

The NT parents have got more chance of obtaining help for their child than the ND parents of ND children
Really? What help do you think is out there? Society is not set up to help ND people - only manage them and tell their parents how to. The best help you can give your child is yourself. But that is only my own opinion. 🤷‍♀️

The help that is out there is rationed and designed to be accessible only to those with the social skills to be able to access it. I understand that management is the only thing to do. I manage my autistic son, but wasn't able to access any help whatsoever from the authorities. We've managed it alone. Perhaps it's easier for me because I'm ND and we're a ND household.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

The help that is out there is rationed and designed to be accessible only to those with the social skills to be able to access it. I understand that management is the only thing to do. I manage my autistic son, but wasn't able to access any help whatsoever from the authorities. We've managed it alone. Perhaps it's easier for me because I'm ND and we're a ND household.

Lots of people struggle to get help both NT and ND. The way help is rationed depends purely on budgets and their management. I've read enough school's forum meeting minutes to understand this. The amount of help and the thresholds for receiving help vary hugely from authority to authority. So much so the level of need which is deemed to be an additional need is not consistent across different authorities. It all becomes a bit meaningless.

In my local authority previously (over a decade ago) they had effectively appeared to lower the threshold for additional funding but they had actually taken the money from the age weighted pupil funding unit. So each school received less money to educate each pupil so the resource available for that was very basic. For a need to be considered additional it did not have to be very severe at all. This was a decision taken because so many schools were requesting additional funding. It was a massive people pleasing exercise. No more money was available. All that changed was now schools applying for any extra were more likely to get it but they all got less upfront. However this resulted in more needs being seen as additional or unusual whereas previously they would be seen as normal.

So the gulf between what is seen as ND and NT appears to be wider. It if ND people's needs were seen more as normal they would be normalised and catered to as a matter of course. Like, oh let's not play ear splitting music whilst people shop for clothes, lots of people hate it.

I think what I am trying to say is that I feel the more tribalism there is amongst ND and NT groups the worst it becomes to get any ND needs catered for. By singling out diversity as being different to the norm it becomes a minority. ND needs are seen as minority needs.

However, as soon as these needs are normalised and not seen as so unusual greater priority is given for catering for this need within society. And I think ND needs could legitimately become vastly more normalised. The amount of people diagnosed with some type of ND is increasing. The ideal would be catering for these needs as a matter of course without being asked or special permission being needed. Society would just have to be more flexible and less tribal.

So, for example, the workplace would have to be flexible to employees needs. Oh, you prefer your work hours to be structured and predictable? - well this is not impossible we will commit to not disturbing you during your time off.

I feel that ND isn't likely to be normalised due to NT parents objecting so loudly at having to take care of ND children, hence the concern on here regarding the NT parent threads where ND people are repeatedly condemned and NT parents feel their lives have been ruined due to being landed with a child who's so awful. At the moment, they lead the narrative. If they received more help perhaps it would change, but, for a majority, I don't think it would. Having a ND kid encompasses everything they despise and can't relate to.

Heck, most people can't even tolerate introverts, so ND people aren't going to have a chance.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Heck, most people can't even tolerate introverts, so ND people aren't going to have a chance.

This is a really good point.

I feel that ND isn't likely to be normalised due to NT parents objecting so loudly at having to take care of ND children, hence the concern on here regarding the NT parent threads where ND people are repeatedly condemned and NT parents feel their lives have been ruined due to being landed with a child who's so awful. At the moment, they lead the narrative.

Sadly this seems to be true. And I agree it is extremely unhelpful. I find it heartbreaking.

If they received more help perhaps it would change, but, for a majority, I don't think it would. Having a ND kid encompasses everything they despise and can't relate to.

I think this relates to my point when I question, what help? What is needed is for society to value ND people more and start looking at the positives to neurodiversity. To start being more inclusive of their needs but appreciating what they bring to society too. That's the solution. Not 'help'. Bunging a small amount of money at a perceived problem is not helping when it is spent inappropriately.

And I've got to say who is the 'they'? As I said before I don't believe tribalism helps. It is the problem. Can't expect people to understand but not allow them to. No people won't get it completely correct all the time but if society is to learn to be more inclusive got to let people step out and make attempts at understanding other people.

I don't believe tribalism helps

This is so true, and pitting NT parents of ND DC against ND parents of ND DC doesn’t help, neither does the sweeping judgement of NT parents of ND DC by ND parents. In my opinion that is no better than the sweeping generalisations and judgemental attitudes by NT people of ND partners. Both are trying to do what they believe is best for their DC even if they have differing opinions of what is best and the route to take. Neither get it right all the time. Both sides can be respectful of each other’s differing opinions. People can post on threads from parents asking for support/help with/for their DC without judging them just because they view things differently and aren’t doing things how you would do them.

The system to secure support is the same system for all. Schools and LAs can’t be relied on to give lawful advice to anyone, parents should always check with one of the several helpful resources out there. It is not automatically easier for NT parents. DC whose parents know what should be provided and can advocate for their DC sadly do get better support, but it doesn’t automatically mean NT parents are better at advocating for their child. It so much more nuanced than that - age, finances, race, educational level, location... An alternative view if you think ND parents know what ND DC need more than NT parents do then ND parents have an advantage of knowing what to pursue e.g. many don’t realise OT and SALT assessments will help, but presumably ND parents are more likely to.

To illustrate my point some parents who regularly post on the SN boards are ND themselves, and arguably it is the DC of such parents who have secured better support in EHCPs. I am a ND parent of ND DC and DC with other complex needs. They have comprehensive packages of support, greater than many, so it’s certainly not true in our case. Obviously I cannot draw any scientific conclusion about that, but wonder whether it is because of traits commonly found in some ND people e.g. the ability to hyper focus, ignore the LAs games as well as attention to detail, perfectionism and needing explicitness.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

The NT parents have got more chance of obtaining help for their child than the ND parents of ND children. We have no chance whatsoever in many cases and we're totally left alone and even gaslighted by the authorities. Personally that didn't prevent me from being a child centered parent and addressing the individual child's needs. Perhaps it's different for NTs 🤷‍♀️

I’m officially NT.

It certainly didn’t help getting support for my ND DC. I was gaslit and had contradictory statements made to me.

I honestly don’t think being ND OR NT parent manes they are less likely to be child centred.

I think what's way more offensive are the comments suggesting that people who are ND should just try a bit harder to be more NT. or shouldn't receive any empathy, compassion or support because of the neurodiversity.

The complete lack of understanding by society of ND conditions and how they manifest, that not everyone is the same (just because your cousin Jack with ADHD manages to do xyz, doesn't mean that's possible for everyone), is really in your face on MN (and other SM tbf) and it really adds to my feeling of loneliness. I have no friends and those posts saying "well if he really wanted to, he would manage to be on time, he just needs to make more of an effort" etc tells me that no one will understand me if I am just myself do I need to keep masking (which is exhausting with chronic illness too so I just don't see anyone).

Tbf there are similar comments about people with mental illness too so we've made very little headway there either. All just reinforces my belief that I don't fit in in society and there's no place for me. I will never be accepted. No allowances will be made. I do just have to keep pretending and covering and trying harder and harder not to be ND.

It's all a bit fucking depressing and I have no idea how it will ever change. Probably not in my lifetime.

It annoys me most when people self-diagnose. Just because they’re anti-social, have poor social skills, etc. doesn’t mean they’re autistic. It really bothers me. Can’t imagine how I would feel if I had a severely autistic DC and read these ridiculous posts.

@AlJalilia

It annoys me most when people self-diagnose. Just because they’re anti-social, have poor social skills, etc. doesn’t mean they’re autistic. It really bothers me. Can’t imagine how I would feel if I had a severely autistic DC and read these ridiculous posts.

Yup. Especially self-diagnosed based on something that's a massive stereotype. They could at least declare they're self-diagnosed before they start advising others.

I don't think ime that NT parents resent or are embarrassed of their ND children at all. I am on a local autism group for parents (my DS has autism and ADHD) and I see lots of parents NT and ND all trying their best for their children and fighting to get what the support they need. I haven't read a single thread on MN that suggested this.

The system is shit for everyone. NT parents have just as hard a time as ND parents. Different challenges maybe but it's a hideous and long battle for everyone.

I also have no issue with parents asking questions about signs they may have seen in their children that may indicate autism or other ND condition. Parents worry about their children. As soon as your first is born it's a lifetime of worry that follows!! Being ND it does mean you and your child are likely to have a harder time of things one way or another, we can all I'm sure attest to that (I for one am sitting here right now unable to work full time, I have no friends, I can't do essential works in my house as it's too overwhelming), and it's pretty natural to be concerned about how that might affect you and your child.

My DS had a bloody awful time at school he had no friends for many years and came home in tears most days. I had an equally bloody awful time and am still struggling with things now in my late 40s. If I could have taken that away from him and me I'd have done it in a heartbeat. I spent years and years battling for his diagnosis and the support he needed. This stuff is not something anyone wants for themselves or their children ideally. You want your children to have nice happy lives where things come easily to them. ND is often not that. So it's natural for parents to worry and also have to go through a process of adjusting their thinking and expectations. I don't think this is any different for parents with children with physical disabilities. The worry and concern about the effect on both their child and themselves and the family as a whole is perfectly understandable. People are not robots. They are allowed to have feelings about things, and to express their concerns and to reach out for support when they need it.

@AlJalilia

It annoys me most when people self-diagnose. Just because they’re anti-social, have poor social skills, etc. doesn’t mean they’re autistic. It really bothers me. Can’t imagine how I would feel if I had a severely autistic DC and read these ridiculous posts.

That makes me feel very excluded from here.

I’m excluded from the main boards because I have autistic traits and I’m not welcome here either.

I don’t have the capacity to pursue a diagnosis for myself and I wish people would understand that.

Please stick around Achilles
There are lots on here who don't have a diagnosis yet or are struggling to get one due to financial reasons or the NHS doesn't test adults in their area.
Some will disagree but don't let that drive you away.

You seen the post in AIBU about not wanting to take her nephew out again as his behaviour is not autism but "bad behaviour"?

Interesting post on it by mumsnet

Evening, all. We need to check the OP of this thread out, and will be taking this thread out while we do so.
Thanks for understanding.

Has someone signed up to purposely be cruel about autistic people??

Theh have removed it for being a previously banned poster....
I can't get over that someone rejoined after being banned, just to shit on autistics! Wtf