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70
Orangesandlemons77 · 02/06/2025 18:23

Taking the PIP- I like the name

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Orangesandlemons77 · 02/06/2025 18:23

Did anyone else see something in the papers that they might not enforce the 4 point rule if the person got 12 points overall?

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MumJumpers · 02/06/2025 18:32

deusexmacintosh · 02/06/2025 18:04

People with disabilities are the most maligned group in the UK. Starting in childhood where they are seen as inconveniences, to adulthood where workplaces, landlords and even the transport and public amenities present easily preventable difficulties.

Nobody complained when Yvette Cooper introduced punitive changes to DLA at the end of the 2000s, nor did they care when Cameron and Duncan Smith wielded the largest axe in public history. Theirs was a government that oversaw cuts to local transport funding for children with Downs Syndrome, ffs!!!! What makes you think the current shower will care this time around?

Disabled people need to realise the only way to improve their lot is to take a leaf out of the trans movement's book and start an equality movement. There is power in large numbers, and more power in getting aggressive. The civil rights movement in America was not successful off the back of inaction, those rights were hard fought and hard won.

There are roughly 13 million people in the UK with a disability (so 1 in 6). This number eclipses that of many other minorities from black and minority ethnic communities to the LGBT community. Even just 4 or 5 million people, along with 1-2 million carers and/or allies forming a network of pressure groups is a number too large for any government to comfortably ignore for long. Aggressive action is the only way forward.

Disabled people need to realise the only way to improve their lot is to take a leaf out of the trans movement's book and start an equality movement. There is power in large numbers, and more power in getting aggressive. The civil rights movement in America was not successful off the back of inaction, those rights were hard fought and hard won.

So you're not very up on disabled rights history then? Because you've implied disabled people are just sitting on our arses not fighting when in reality, disabled people have been fighting for our rights for years. We already have pressure groups etc. But the nature of being disabled means that we can't do things at the same intensity as other groups of people. And it's not sexy so doesn't get the same level of news coverage as other minority groups.

Do you really think disabled people are not fighting as hard as we can, every bloody day, for every little thing we have? Do you really think we just need to try harder and magically all our problems would be solved? Because that's ablist rhetoric right there. The fight for daily living takes precedence over everything else and for many of us it's all consuming. And when we push back, we are just dismissed, pushed aside, told we're hysterical or unstable when we stand up for ourselves. Or the worst one, when someone grabs the handles on the back of your wheelchair and just moves you out of the way without your consent.

no one complained... Oh yes they bloody did! We're tired of complaining. We're tired. We are disabled. We do not have the same abilities and often stamina as able-bodied people. I mean the clue's in the name.

LadyKenya · 02/06/2025 18:47

Orangesandlemons77 · 02/06/2025 18:23

Did anyone else see something in the papers that they might not enforce the 4 point rule if the person got 12 points overall?

No, but then I don't buy any paper. I have not see anything on the news though.

LadyKenya · 02/06/2025 18:52

And it's not sexy so doesn't get the same level of news coverage as other minority groups.

An odd choice of words to use, imo. Disabled people include other minorities as well, obviously.

Viviennemary · 02/06/2025 19:57

The amount being paid out in benefits is unsustainable, In any case there will need to be cuts to pay for increases in defence spending. The money has to come from somewhere.

LadyKenya · 02/06/2025 21:25

Viviennemary · 02/06/2025 19:57

The amount being paid out in benefits is unsustainable, In any case there will need to be cuts to pay for increases in defence spending. The money has to come from somewhere.

Magic Money Tree GIF by STARCUTOUTSUK

They should grow some more money trees, methinks!

Guavafish1 · 02/06/2025 22:35

If labour doesn’t change the PIP especially to tackle the mental health payments…. Reform will and it will be worse.

PIP cuts- what happens next?
Viviennemary · 02/06/2025 22:57

A lot of working people find it difficult to cope with the pressures of a job.

caringcarer · 02/06/2025 23:28

Orangesandlemons77 · 31/05/2025 12:21

Since writing this post, I have just had a PIP review and they have cut my 4 point scores to 2. I'm unsure whether to appeal yet as overall my points still reach 12.

I'm considering it though for the future

I think you have to or at your next review you'll lose PIP altogether. It's not fair but Labour are acting as bullies and targeting the elderly, the disabled, DC in poverty and I just wonder who will be their next target. It's sickening I am a Shared Lives Carer for an 18 year old with learning disabilities who is on UC but goes to college. He claims LCWRA ATM. Labour want to take it away from him as he's under 22. His disability won't go away for 4 years and because of his learning disability he won't understand why he doesn't get enough money to be able to do anything, including going to college as he won't be able to afford to get there on just basic UC at rate for 18 year old.

Orangesandlemons77 · 03/06/2025 03:53

I've just remembered something about PIP appeals though from doing one in the past.

As far as I remember they only look at enough points to get you the award (e.g. 12) so in my case I am not sure if they would consider my other points as I have already got 12

I will need to try and check that out as the whole thing is stressful anyway. It does feel impossible at times.

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Orangesandlemons77 · 03/06/2025 03:55

caringcarer sorry to hear that, that's awful. Maybe they can qualify for some kind of disabled student allowance via the college?

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MarvellousMonsters · 08/06/2025 11:38

Viviennemary · 02/06/2025 19:57

The amount being paid out in benefits is unsustainable, In any case there will need to be cuts to pay for increases in defence spending. The money has to come from somewhere.

A 2% tax on assets over £10m would generate 5x the amount that the proposed cuts to PIP will save @Viviennemary. The money is there, they are just looking in the wrong place.

“Did anyone else see something in the papers that they might not enforce the 4 point rule if the person got 12 points overall?”

I didn’t see this @Orangesandlemons77 do you remember where it was? It’s still not hugely helpful, as 12 points is high rate, so all those on standard rate will still lose out.

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 11:46

I can't remember where is saw it but it seems it was just a way of 'softening' the cuts, mentioned by the Gov apparently, I agree they might as well just get rid of the standard rate then.

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bestcatlife · 08/06/2025 11:47

Does anyone know when the vote is happening? It's awful leaving people in limbo like this (although I suppose that's the plan)

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:06

bestcatlife · 08/06/2025 11:47

Does anyone know when the vote is happening? It's awful leaving people in limbo like this (although I suppose that's the plan)

I think, 16 June according to this?

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/green-paper-progress-update

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PandoraSocks · 08/06/2025 13:24

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:06

Thanks for posting this, it is really useful. I am going to write to the APPG which covers my husband's condition as well as my MP.

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:24

Hmm, just read the comments under that link about the assessors coercing people into the 2 point scores, after my own assessment where they seemed to do this.

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plantsnpants · 08/06/2025 13:27

I think this will all go through as it’s a very popular decision (not one that people overtly agree with) but one that will keep voters from going to reform, sadly.

I think the scale of ppl who are on benefits / sick leave with MH problems creates resentment in those picking up the slack at work / paying into the system, which gives support to these cuts.

The problem is that those who are in need of this benefit don’t often have the ability / confidence to advocate for themselves or promote their existence, so that results in people who are outside this community believing that all those claiming are the same as the one person they know to be fraudulent etc.

I don’t agree with this but believe it may be one of the causes

LadyKenya · 08/06/2025 13:35

I think the scale of ppl who are on benefits / sick leave with MH problems creates resentment in those picking up the slack at work / paying into the system, which gives support to these cuts.

If people could get access to MH services in a timely manner, then a vast number of people would not have ended up so ill, and in need of benefits. Those services need to be accessible, and ongoing in some cases. Not just talking therapy for a couple of sessions, etc.

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:47

It's not just people with MH problems the cuts will target though it's everyone with 2 point scores which can include things like aids for example, I read one of the main groups which will be cut off is people with arthritis, also women and older people

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Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:48

Sorry that was in response to plantsnpants

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Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:54

Scores which will no longer have relevance after the cuts-

Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
Cannot cook a simple meal using a conventional cooker but is able to do so using a microwave. points. 2 points
Needs prompting to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
Needs –to use an aid or appliance to be able to take nutrition; or supervision to be able to take nutrition; or assistance to be able to cut up food. 2 points.
Needs a therapeutic source to be able to take nutrition. 2 points.
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes no more than 3.5 hours a week. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points.
Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points.
Needs assistance to be able to wash either their hair or body below the waist. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to manage toilet needs or incontinence. 2 points.
Needs supervision or prompting to be able to manage toilet needs. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points.
Needs either -prompting to be able to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstances for remaining clothed; or prompting or assistance to be able to select appropriate clothing. 2 points.
Needs assistance to be able to dress or undress their lower body. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to speak or hear. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance, other than spectacles or contact lenses, to be able to read or understand either basic or complex written information. 2 points.
Needs prompting to be able to read or understand complex written information. 2 points.
Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions. 2 points.

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PandoraSocks · 08/06/2025 14:01

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 13:54

Scores which will no longer have relevance after the cuts-

Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
Cannot cook a simple meal using a conventional cooker but is able to do so using a microwave. points. 2 points
Needs prompting to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points.
Needs –to use an aid or appliance to be able to take nutrition; or supervision to be able to take nutrition; or assistance to be able to cut up food. 2 points.
Needs a therapeutic source to be able to take nutrition. 2 points.
Needs supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage therapy that takes no more than 3.5 hours a week. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points.
Needs supervision or prompting to be able to wash or bathe. 2 points.
Needs assistance to be able to wash either their hair or body below the waist. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to manage toilet needs or incontinence. 2 points.
Needs supervision or prompting to be able to manage toilet needs. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points.
Needs either -prompting to be able to dress, undress or determine appropriate circumstances for remaining clothed; or prompting or assistance to be able to select appropriate clothing. 2 points.
Needs assistance to be able to dress or undress their lower body. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to speak or hear. 2 points.
Needs to use an aid or appliance, other than spectacles or contact lenses, to be able to read or understand either basic or complex written information. 2 points.
Needs prompting to be able to read or understand complex written information. 2 points.
Needs prompting or assistance to be able to make complex budgeting decisions. 2 points.

They will still be relevant though if the person scores one or more 4s? Then the rest of the scores could come from 2s and 3s to make up the points needed?

Orangesandlemons77 · 08/06/2025 14:05

Yes sorry I meant on their own. People will also need a 4 point score to qualify

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