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Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

1000 replies

jewishorthomum · 26/04/2023 14:02

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life?
Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment.
(When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
JeweyJew · 27/04/2023 15:03

TheShellBeach · 27/04/2023 15:01

I see JeweyJew has returned, to do a bit of mansplaining.
Hmm

*Jewsplaining

PinkPlantCase · 27/04/2023 15:04

Sorry I can’t remember who the poster was to tag but the lady who mentioned her daughter was finding it really hard to choose a university.

My brother went to the university of Birmingham and had quite a few practicing Jewish people on his course. They would arrange field trips so that they weren’t travelling on a Friday night or Saturday and I think the university has quite a large J soc in general.

Birmingham is such a diverse city that people are very used by to accommodating different religions practices.

Hope that helps!

TheShellBeach · 27/04/2023 15:05

Has anyone answered my question about bedikot cloths and rabbis?
I wouldn't want a man to see the equivalent of a used tampon.
It seems very immodest.

Ichosetheredpill · 27/04/2023 15:06

I'm fascinated by other cultures and religions but I always worry a little about asking people IRL about their cultures/religions in case I come across as ignorant/tactless. How would you feel if someone you'd got to know IRL, such as at a baby group, opened a conversation about your life like this? What would you find a tactful way to start?

Dodgeitornot · 27/04/2023 15:06

Ortiguilla · 27/04/2023 14:55

With respect:

  1. Assimilation didn't help the Jews of Germany, or the Jews of Cordoba, or the Jews who were shot in their synagogue in the USA last year.

  2. I don't think you (or I) can speak for those people or why they choose to live like that. Many, many ethnic and/or religious groups live in a very closeted way. The Somali Muslim families at my kids' primary school were invited to every birthday party we ever had (when it was an all-class party) but none of them ever came . I don't blame or dislike them for that and it never affected how friendly I was towards them in the playground etc

3)I think you underestimate the trauma of the Holocaust - which is still in living memory - as well as the trauma of the many other mass murders that have affected us in the past century or two.

  1. It is never, ever the fault of any minority group if other people choose to be racist towards them. Ever.
  1. With that attitude all minorities should stop trying to assimilate. All black people should just create their own tiny communities where they refuse to speak to their neighbour. Clearly it hasn't helped the ones getting shot everyday in America by police officers. It also hasn't helped any Muslims who are also getting killed everyday.
  2. My DD had very strict Somali Muslims in her class too, as have in in secondary school. I really don't think you can compare that to the hasidic community in Stamford Hill. The fact they're in the same class as your kid says enough. Not going to a party isn't exactly the same thing. Plenty of people say no to those. I've never ever experienced a very strict Muslim be anywhere near as rude as the hasidic Jews I've met. They've either treated me like air or looked at me with disgust. I'm a very conservative Christian white woman. Not dressed much different to their own.
  3. Did you miss the bit where I spoke about the Holocaust?
  4. I never said it was their fault. However, my experience with the Hasidic Jews was very, very negative and without having the ability to speak to them and understand why certain behaviours happen, it's impossible to know if their behaviour towards me is hatred or just their way of viewing things. As I said, I don't expect friendships with them, but their behaviour towards outsiders is at best unfriendly at worst hateful. I've never ever experienced anything like it since.
thoughtsandverses · 27/04/2023 15:06

I reported that without reading any further - and will carry on with any posts that look as if they intend to hurt.

Deathraystare · 27/04/2023 15:06

Canvey Island??? Why there!! I used to live there!!!!!

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 27/04/2023 15:07

Dodgeitornot · 27/04/2023 14:51

@Ortiguilla I'm on the fence with this. I think yes some people will but integration goes a long way. Exposure and understanding goes a long way to helping. I really disagree with how insulated some communities are and I suspect it's more to do with stopping people from straying than much to do with previous experience of persecution.

I'm not Jewish, but from what I've read and personal experience it's a mix of both.

The fear IS real. The more you mix , and are obviously "different " and not observing secular rules and customs the more the risk increases. This is very difficult for the ultra orthodox Jewish community to navigate.

And while you might view negatively their worry about the young generation "straying " it's quite understandable when the numbers are so small, and they could be eradicated in just a few generations. It's deeply important to them to preserve their customs, faith and identity.

TheShellBeach · 27/04/2023 15:08

thoughtsandverses · 27/04/2023 15:06

I reported that without reading any further - and will carry on with any posts that look as if they intend to hurt.

Same here.

Dodgeitornot · 27/04/2023 15:08

@JeweyJew Look I get that you're a man that's got his hands on a phone and a public forum, but do you really think this is the appropriate place and time to argue with your fellow Jews about the ins and outs of your faith? This is a very informative thread and 99% of the people here will have no idea what you're even arguing about.
Please allow this thread to do the job it's been doing well, which is educating the wider public on orthodox Judaism. No one needs to see that you're arguing between yourselves. It's not a good look.

OneHurtSpaggettio · 27/04/2023 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Xenia · 27/04/2023 15:09

I don;'t have a problem with people of any religion thinking theirs or their version of it is correct or from God. They might be wrong but they can say it. There are plenty of ways to skin a cat or live a good life.

However there are lots of certainties - that women can usually work out who is male in a mostly women environment as here.

GennyGennyGenny · 27/04/2023 15:10

DorotheaDiamond · 27/04/2023 07:22

Not orthodox here but…

the laws in Judaism adapt to allow for changing times. When the tile was originally made towns and villages were tiny and potentially walled, so you would never have to walk more than 2000 paces (I think is the distance) to get to shul. Now it might be much further. without the eruv women with kids in pramsa and those in wheelchairs would never be able to go to shul on Shabbos/Holy days - you can’t carry a changing bag or anything!

When laws are adapted, who makes those decisions? Is it community-based leaders?
Someone posted a link explaining what an eruv is, and it made reference to cell phones. Another poster mentioned that smart phones wouldn’t be allowed. How is this discussed, in the yeshiva? I think I recall an episode in Shtisel where they seemed to be discussing theoretical situations and how they should be handled.

Great thread, OP.
And another recommendation for Shtisel for those who haven’t seen it.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 27/04/2023 15:14

JeweyJew · 27/04/2023 14:48

Allow me to clarify some issues. Firstly apologies for coming across rude on the coloured issue. I am sometimes abrupt bordering on rude, and it's something I need to work on.

POC/coloured isn't the hill I'm prepared to die on, so I'm not going to spend any more time back and forth. I'll just state my position and leave it at that. Personally I don't use either term, opting instead for either the geographical area or skin colour.

I could be wrong, but it appeared to me that the poster who first brought up the offensiveness of 'coloured', was doing so on behalf of others. Taking offence on behalf of a group (white saviour) is something that raises my hackles, and that probably came through in the response. Again, apologies for that.

For the record, I don't think it's a case of 'asking people what they find offensive', as nobody had ever polled all the black people to know which term they prefer. It was more a case of activists self-declaring themselves to be spokespeople for all others.

As stated, I don't see the difference between POC and coloured people. It's literally the same thing only back to front. However, as it's deemed an offensive term, I don't use it. I wasn't the one who used it to begin with, and I merely commented, albeit somewhat rudely, on the so-called offensiveness of one term vs the other.

Anyway, I'm over and done with that.

As to the question of Jewish-ness or religiosity, I'd compare it to many MNs on the TW issue. While many activists might not like someone saying TW are men, sometimes (always?) truth is far more important than being palatable.

Orthodox Judaism, which from a historic pov is unquestionably the authentic version, believes the Torah is divine. Not 'divinely inspired' but word for word dictated by Hashem.

The five books of Moses (Torah) were dictated word for word by Hashem. All the rest, namely the Prophets and the Writings (Nevi'im & Kesuvim), in addition to the Oral Torah (Talmud), are also divine, but not word for word. However they are all the words of Hashem as related to Moses on Mt Sinai.

If you believe that, there is actually meaning to the term 'religious' Jew. You're following the religion. The Law as dictated by Hashem. However someone who doesn't accept the divinity of the Torah, even if they do say the Sabbath, is merely being a cultural Jew.

For some cultural Judaism is eating matzah balls and gefilte fish, while for others it's also doing a seder and bar mitzvah ceremony. But it's still only about culture and tradition, rather than religion, ie because Hashem commanded it.

Seeing as any other denomination of 'Judaism' except for Orthodox doesn't actually believe in the divinity of the Torah, or in the other 13 tenets of faith for that matter, it is factually correct to state that they're not religious.

For me, someone stating they've converted through reform or any other such denomination and therefore they're Jewish, is as offensive as a man putting on makeup and claiming to be a woman. Judaism is a religion with very specific criteria, and it's not just about how one feels.

Within Orthodox Judaism, there are indeed many streams, and they're all valid. There are many differences based on culture and custom, and even some disagreements on points of law. But they all agree on the basic understanding which I wrote above, that the Torah is divine and all 13 tenets of faith are true.

Hopefully that clears up some matters.

I can’t even go there re some of your statements.

I would so love you to speak to my close Jewish friend about how you don’t consider her to be a proper Jew (religious) but maybe a cultural Jew instead because of how she’s chosen to practise/observe and not observe Judaism. She’d hand your arse to you and give you a dose of snark and New York attitude. She had good reasons for marrying outside of her faith and was engaged to a man who’s now orthodox and moved to Israel. So she certainly could’ve followed that route. She had her Bat Mitzvah, went to Hebrew School as well as spoke Yiddish and English at home with her mum and grandma (who emigrated post WW2 to New York from Lithuania and ran a general store).

She wrote a play called Lilith by the way.

Even my ex boss who was an elderly liberal Jewish man and was religious as well as a cultural Jew would have issues with some of your ridiculous statements.

Dodgeitornot · 27/04/2023 15:14

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 27/04/2023 15:07

I'm not Jewish, but from what I've read and personal experience it's a mix of both.

The fear IS real. The more you mix , and are obviously "different " and not observing secular rules and customs the more the risk increases. This is very difficult for the ultra orthodox Jewish community to navigate.

And while you might view negatively their worry about the young generation "straying " it's quite understandable when the numbers are so small, and they could be eradicated in just a few generations. It's deeply important to them to preserve their customs, faith and identity.

I actually really understand their view and worry re young people. I am very religious myself and worry about this also in my community. I promise I understand. I genuinely can't comment on detail on any other Jewish community other than the hasidic Jews in Stamford Hill. All I wish is for them to simply say sorry I don't shake hands or just look away. I'm not sure it's easy to understand if you haven't experienced it.
As I already said, my experience with all other Jews, although limited, has been very very different and this thread has also shown that. I find the Jewish people just like any other religion. There's good and bad in all.

thoughtsandverses · 27/04/2023 15:14

It might be better if people who are not Jewish avoided telling Jews how to debate, or suggesting that their community is not sufficiently nice to others. Honestly.

meshuggeneh · 27/04/2023 15:16

@OneHurtSpaggettio
Why are you going on an antisemitic website to find Talmudic quotes that make you feel uncomfortable even though you yourself say you know no Jews?
Why have you quoted from an antisemtici website?
I could go through the Koran and find tons of problematic stuff if I wanted to. Same with the bible, new and old testaments. Why are you obsessed with the Talmud when you have no link to Judaism?

FTB2022 · 27/04/2023 15:16

@JeweyJew there is a huge difference between being a white saviour and politely telling someone that they have used an term which is widely deemed offensive. I did not say I took personal offence to the term, nor did I seek to speak for any, let alone all, black people.

I apologise to any black posters who found it inappropriate of me to inform the OP that their language could be offensive.

Dodgeitornot · 27/04/2023 15:16

thoughtsandverses · 27/04/2023 15:14

It might be better if people who are not Jewish avoided telling Jews how to debate, or suggesting that their community is not sufficiently nice to others. Honestly.

And I never have before, until there was an AMA thread about it. In which case, I asked anything.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 27/04/2023 15:18

thoughtsandverses · 27/04/2023 15:14

It might be better if people who are not Jewish avoided telling Jews how to debate, or suggesting that their community is not sufficiently nice to others. Honestly.

You mean like me? Just use my name. When I find someone rude and offensive as @JeweyJew then of course I’ll call him out on it.

Ortiguilla · 27/04/2023 15:19

meshuggeneh · 27/04/2023 15:01

Yep. Makes sense.

meshuggeneh · 27/04/2023 15:20

@OneHurtSpaggettio And I'm pretty sure your "concern" about zionism being against the Jewish relgiion comes from a similar website as it's also a common refrain from antisemites pretending that they're just anti-zionist - which fits with the ethos of the other website you used.
If you're really interested, there's loads of material on religious zionism and its ideological basis.
But then again, you thought that Zionism itself came out of religious ideology which couldn't be further from the truth as it was a secular nationalist movement for the Jewish people.

highfidelity · 27/04/2023 15:22

mirah2 · 27/04/2023 13:19

As an aside, can I just point out that having a thread where multiple Jewish MNs come out of the woodwork to answer questions on the OPs behalf, and end up disagreeing with each other (with varying degrees of respect/insult) is in itself...very Jewish. 😂

I'm hoping to come back later to pick up some points about conversion/racism etc. I'm juggling work and an unexpectedly sick kid atm, so at this rate the thread might be full before I get there 🤔

Yes it is! It's the little things like this that I love about being Jewish. I often try to explain this aspect of being Jewish to non-Jews and fail miserably!

I'm not an Orthodox Jew. I don't speak Hebrew but my paternal grandmother spoke Yiddish and I can speak a little and have a real love of Yiddish words and phrases. My father's family arrived during the 1880s having fled the Russian pogroms. My mother's parents were Dutch and came over in the mid 1930s.

Growing up, we belonged to a United shul, and attended only on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Although we did not have separate kitchens, we did keep kosher in as much as we followed the dietary laws and did not mix meat and milk, and did not eat shellfish. As an adult, I am taking the time to observe more and also learn more about Judaism as a whole. Am also considering learning Hebrew.

So, for me, this thread has been so enriching and informative. I just wanted to take the time to thank @jewishorthomum as well as the other MN Jews whom have also taken the time to contribute.

Wagtails · 27/04/2023 15:22

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 12:00

There is no prohibition against a women viewing another women unclothed. So technically I could browse instagram without transgressing anything. My husband could not. He doesn't have a smartphone. He doesn't have a social media account other than LinkedIn.
However inorder to preserve the spirit of modesty, even as a woman, I try to limit instagram and my exposure to indecent material online,
If I viewed something immodest I'd just click off and scroll further. I try not to watch indecent films. I may mention to my husband what I saw, I might not. Its a personal choice and depends on each relationship. There is no obligation to "own up" if that's what you're asking.
I can tell that when I see my husband turning his head away from a sexy looking woman on a billboard, I feel so secure in my knowledge that I can fully trust my husband in my marriage. He won't even look at a picture of an improperly dressed woman!

Does your husband know you are doing this AMA?

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