Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

[jewishorthomum]

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life?
Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment.
(When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

Thanks again for such a good thread.

This may have been mentioned before, but in the BBC’s excellent series Love, Faith and Me, the episode about a young Orthodox Jewish married couple “The Highs and Lows of a Kosher Marriage” is on iPlayer and covers some of the interesting issues which have come up on here. It follows the woman, Shoshi, into the Mikvah, though the carefully edited shots in the water are reconstructed using a model. It’s informative for those of us who are interested.

I remember there was another a previous AMA on this topic a few years ago. Maybe some people posting here were on it or remember it? That was also a fantastic thread and well worth a read. It was around the time Unorthodox came out and there was heightened interest in the religion.

I can try and link it if there's any interest.

Hi OP,
Thanks for your reply :)

My next question would be why do you, and many other Orthodox Jews, reject this idea that Jews are only supposed to return to Israel/Palestine en masse when God allows them to, when this is what the Jewish Bible says? Do you not agree that the Zionist movement encourage this to happen, rather than it being an act of God?

I feel like you’re a good person to ask this as you teach in a Jewish college.

Evidence:

1. And it will be, when all these things come upon you the blessing and the curse which I have set before you that you will consider in your heart, among all the nations where the Lord your God has banished you,
2. and you will return to the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul, and you will listen to His voice according to all that I am commanding you this day you and your children,
3. then, the Lord, your God, will bring back your exiles, and He will have mercy upon you. He will once again gather you from all the nations, where the Lord, your God, had dispersed you.
4. Even if your exiles are at the end of the heavens, the Lord, your God, will gather you from there, and He will take you from there.
5. And the Lord, your God, will bring you to the land which your forefathers possessed, and you will take possession of it, and He will do good to you, and He will make you more numerous than your forefathers.

— Deuteronomy 30:1-5

11. And it shall come to pass that on that day, the Lord shall continue to apply His hand a second time to acquire the rest of His people, that will remain from Assyria and from Egypt and from Pathros and from Cush and from Elam and from Sumeria and from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

12. And He shall raise a banner to the nations, and He shall gather the lost of Israel, and the scattered ones of Judah He shall gather from the four corners of the earth.
    — Book of Isaiah 11:11-12

13. And I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will return your captivity and gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will return you to the place whence I exiled you.
    — Book of Jeremiah 29:14

I understand that you feel a strong connection to Israel/Palestine, just as Christians as Muslims do, but isn’t that a separate?

Lots more detail here:
https://ph.yhb.org.il/en/14-02-01/
The mitzva of ona is for a man to bring pleasure and joy to his wife as best he can and to achieve complete sexual union with her, lovingly and with abundant joy (as explained in 1:2 above). Every man must fulfill this mitzva as frequently as his physical stamina and professional demands allow. For most, this means twice a week (as explained further in section 7 below). A woman, too, has a mitzva to couple with her husband and to enjoy him. The more she enjoys their sexual relations, the greater the mitzva.

When you look at all these different sects and denominations do you not ever wonder what is the point? Who is right? Who is wrong? Surely, there is only one? I just find all this nuance blows my mind and makes no sense? I presume God just had one way?

@AliceOlive I think that was the undercover rabbi who's now disappeared and the other jewish ladies didn't agree with, so I trust them lol

Thank you. She's 12 and in year 7. Luckily her classmates (from a huge variety of backgrounds) all rallied round her, so she's doing OK. They have made the boy sign a contract (?) and he had a one-day suspension. This same boy has also been extremely racist towards Chinese, South Asian and Black students and teachers, it was just my daughter's bad luck to be on the receiving end on that day.

Hope his parents were called in @Ortiguilla . I dread this from happening to my children one day...on the one hand I wish I could wrap them in cotton and shelter them (hence I get why ultra Orthodox Jews and other insular communities are the way they are), on the other feel this might happen one day and they better learn how to deal with it. The positives of interaction are so much more.

@Ortiguilla I appreciate that. I've grown up with the Holocaust as a shadow too. The second biggest concentration camp was in my mum's home town. I lost many family members, not because they were Jewish but for many other reasons Hitler decided to torture them. You'd struggle to find a polish person who hasn't been effected or knew someone with the tattoo. I appreciate that far far more Jews than anyone else died though and I understand the constant antisemitism is scary. Jewish schools shouldn't have to have security outside them etc.
I guess you're partly right, I guess some of the reasons given by some of the Jews on here, gave me the vibe that it's almost they do deserve more. Life isn't the pain Olympics and I guess I just feel like a little kindness goes a long way. It feels a little bit entitled to believe that someone should just be ok with being ignored and treated like a sex object, and also be grateful for it because it doesn't hurt anyone? I can completely understand the reasoning, but I've never experienced this type of behaviour from other very strict religions, very strict Muslims for example. They've always been kind and explained they don't shake hands. It is very telling that there are many many stories on here from the Stamford Hill community with the same negative experiences.
I've found the community in Golders Green far, far nicer.

I don’t mean to pile on but given that the poster referred to a patrilineal passing down of knowledge, it does seem to be a man.

Would it be proper for ultra orthodox man be on a thread discussing topics specific to women (many of an intimate nature) on a women’s website?

My great grandmother(maternal side ) was Jewish but converted to become a catholic. My DGM, DM, and myself have all been christened and confirmed C of E although even before I found out I have always been drawn to Judaism. Would I need to convert or would I still be thought of as jewish

also how would I go about proving my heritage

I asked this too but it was missed. I think I'd really struggle believing my religion really was the right one if so much depends on the rabbi. It sounds like their opinions really differ even within the same Jewish denomination. I don't think that's something I could accept. I'm not in the religion for an interpretation that can change with the wind.

Yes, I would consider a husband unilaterally deciding as controlling and financially abusive, unless that is something the couple have decided for whatever reason it works for them. Financial decisions are theoretically joint in our house, although practically, I don't get involved in decisions like comparing house or car insurances or whatever, but that is because I passed that job on to my husband and trust his judgement, and quite honestly I am not interested.

I have my own independent account where my earnings go and we have a joint account. Big decisions are always discussed and both have to agree. We generally check in with each other with bigger purchases. We have been through some very tight times, and at those points there was a lot more discussion about what we spent money on, but that's because if one of us spent a tenner on something, that could leave the house short for basics like nappies so we both had to be very on it.

That's how it goes for us, but I would think that how money is managed is individual to the family, not the community. When I think of friends/family, they all have their own unique systems. The only couple I know where the husband made unilateral financial decisions divorced.

I think I noticed this point further up the thread and just wanted to hear more!

Someone asked about perceptions of Jesus and one answer was that he is perceived as someone who moved away from Judaism. Is that actually in the Talmud - where does it come from?

I would have assumed that Jews simply see Christianity and the Christian holy book as mythology, so don't see stories about Jesus as consequential at all.

Otherwise, the facts on the 'historical Jesus' seem to be minimal - that he was immersed by John the Baptist in the river Jordan, and that he was executed by Pilate. Paul/Saul of Tarsus made the decisive move away from dietary rules and circumcision.

I don't believe in G_d or the divinity of Jesus, so it's not that my beliefs are affected either way. But I do think the perception of Jesus as not Jewish is really interesting - as is the position of Judaism within Christian doctrines.

Thank you for such an informative and fascinating thread @jewishorthomum.

Thank you for starting this thread OP, and for your thoughtful and interesting responses.

My question is - what is your honest opinion of Jews who marry out and don’t bring their families up in the Jewish religion?

And yes I do have skin in the game! I was brought up Jewish, though not especially religious, I attended synagogue a few times a year, also cheder, plus Passover at grandparents house etc. I’m now married to a non Jew and we’d both describe ourselves as atheists, and aren’t raising our children in any religion. Though I do plan to teach them about Judaism in a family/cultural sense - the fact my grandparents are originally from Poland, etc.

In regards to living life in such an insular way, in order to protect yourselves from hatred, could it be perhaps that it’s doing the opposite, and actually contributing to a rise in antisemitism?

The basics of the religion are universal across Jews - the Torah is identical wherever you go. Things like not eating pork and shellfish, keeping Shabbat, the stories we tell, these are universal.

Beyond that, you have thousands of years of commentaries and interpretations, and interpretations of interpretations et cetera. Having to adapt a book thousands of years old and work out how it applies to the contemporary world. A religion and culture that has been dispersed and scattered around the world and has developed within/alongside different cultures.

Judaism is not unusual - all the major religions have similar disagreements and different interpretations. There's probably less difference between all the Jewish sects than between the Roman Catholic church, the Church of England, Quakers, and Eastern Orthodox, for example.

I agree - thank you for the thread and wonderful answers, also @EllaDisenchanted's very readable contributions!

@Bigpinktrain isn't that victim blaming?

Thank you @Conchersbonkers I really appreciate this. The school haven't been very good at communicating with me, I've been chasing it up all week, but only had one conversation and now they're on strike today. I've heard it all via my daughter.

My grandparents all suffered antisemitic attacks growing up in London about 100 years ago, and as a result their friendship groups were almost entirely Jewish. They just didn't trust that non-Jewish people would ever truly like or care about Jews.

I always thought they were very wrong about this, although I understood why, and my parents have far more mixed friendships. I love being friends with people from all over the world and sharing food, stories, connecting.

But the last 10 or so years has been really really tough being Jewish in the UK. We've been through a lot of stuff, and had stuff said to us, that I never expected to hear in my home city and country in the 21st century.

This.

Also mutilating babies purely for religious reasons and not medical necessity is abuse.

@Bigpinktrain
Hitler murdered fully assimilated Jews too. He didn't check how insular they were.

Antisemitism has been a pretty constant feature of being Jewish in Europe for the past 2000 years.

The Jews of Germany were as assimilated as it was possible to be. Freud treated the best of Viennese society. His sons fought in WW1 for Germany. They saw themselves as German, more than Jewish. Didn't make a blind bit of difference when the Nazis chose to scapegoat them

The Jews of Cordoba were a large part of the city and held important positions as respected figures. Didn't help when the Spanish Inquisition tortured and murdered them in their hundreds of thousands.

My grandpa was overseas for years fighting in WW2 as a British soldier. Didn't stop my grandma, back home in London, getting antisemitic abuse on the bus because they blamed the Jews for the war.

Doesn't seem to matter if we assimilate, don't assimilate, try to conceal who we are, are proud of it, mix, don't mix, whatever. It is not our fault.

This has been answered many times during this thread.

It's matrilineal - passed through the mother's line - so if your mother is Jewish, you are Jewish too. Observing the religion and traditions has no bearing on one's Jewishness.

This is why the conversion process is long and hard.

No, please understand me as a Black lady who feels that dread, that sickening fear that I will be judged to a very different standard to my white peers, knowing that when I have to collect my child from school because she has been spat at, I can’t possibly be upset because I will be called aggressive, I get it. But my life and the existence of racism wouldn’t change if I didn’t try and integrate with the very same people that pull me down. Sadly.