The random comment men

[brokenbiscuitsx]

You know the ones, not the ‘leery car shouters’ but those who feel they can make comments about what you, a stranger, is doing when going about their business (and I’ll add not harming anyone!)

Just now I popped to the shop to collect a parcel, when I was there I grabbed a coffee from their Costa pod and a blueberry muffin. The man behind me piped up “You’ll get fat eating that” I was really taken aback so just said “thanks for your comment, random man” paid and then as I was walking out past him he said, no need to be so rude and mumbled ‘stroppy cow’ but I heard.

I wasn’t rude I just asserted myself and that is the issue isn’t it. He was expecting me to laugh along ‘oh I already am tee hee’ (I’m not) but no, I’m sick of it.

It happens too often as well. I have had a random man comment on how I could run better in the park when I was having a break and a man who saw my Led Zeppelin tshirt and said ‘what’s your favourite song then?’ So I said ‘Heartbreaker- you probably haven’t heard of it’ and he mumbled something at me and walked off (I knew he was trying to catch me out, hoping I didn’t know any songs!)

I don’t really know what my AIBU is, I guess, is it rude? Should I have just smiled sweetly like the passive woman I am meant to be. I’m just sick of these types of men! He took offence with me speaking up, perhaps he should learn not to make comments to random strangers.

Does anyone else get this, maybe I have that sort of face that men can’t help commenting to. If so, how do you cope with it?

Just, ugh, makes me angry.

At least the random comment men fuck off.

The best one I had was when I donated goods to a charity shop. Assistant asked me if I was able to Gift Aid it. I replied I could not as didn't pay tax. The male voice at the side of me says ' oh, how are you lucky enough not to pay tax?'.My reply to him "Well, I was made redundant about a week ago and I'm now unemployed, happy now?" Shop goes silent, man sticks head down and not another word uttered. It was true, I was made redundant and gutted about the job. I really can't stand this about men and Im sorry to say Ive found men 50 and over the worst. Opinions on everything and how right they are. I give them a rude reply and one man who told me to smile on a particularly bad day, I told him to just F off. I wouldn't recommend this, but I get so bloody fed up with it. I don't go around making comments to people and Im not going to put up with it. What gives men the right?

Battleneck it’s not just “3 seconds”.
It’s judging where you think the interaction is going to go.
Do I ignore him? If yes, he might turn on me.
Do I reply? If yes, he might turn on me if I don’t respond in the way he wants, or if I don’t continue to engage after the first response.

It’s a lot of mental energy. And it is relentless.

As a previous poster said, read the visual cues before engaging with someone. Women are not here for your entertainment.

@DrSbaitso

Battleneck, please stop embarrassing yourself.

Serious story. When I was 14 there was one particular subject at school. I felt like I never understood a word of what was taught, and was constantly embarrassing myself by putting my hand up and asking the teacher to explain. I'm sure other kids had questions, but as I recall I accounted for the vast majority. Come the end of year exam I was top of the class, and I looked back and though "I'm glad I embarrassed myself week in week out... the real idiots in the class were the ones who didn't and wallowed in their own ignorance as a result".

Obviously none of this obliges any of you to educate me or humour me, but if you think that being embarrassed is going to put me off interacting in a way that might increase my understanding of the world then you've got another think coming.

What some PPs said about the attitude of men when women are into sport/music/gaming etc is so true. The comments on the announcement that Alex Scott has been hired by FA as a commentator/pundit for the World Cup was this exact attitude in action. So many men COULDNT BEAR that a woman had that job, despite the fact she's an ex professional footballer and holds a degree in sports journalism.

@HoppingPavlova

Battleneck I’m a woman, and I understood where you are coming from. I also don’t understand why anyone would let anything a random says bother them, or why they choose to interact with dicks in response. I used to work in a role where, every single day, I would come across people both men and women who were vying for the title of biggest cunt in the universe. If I didn’t shrug it off like water off a ducks back I would have been six foot under decades ago riddled with ulcers. I really don’t get it when people take on stuff such as the examples in the OP let alone interact with someone over it.

Thank you. I understand that this doesn't make me right, but I'm reassured that my words aren't completely crazy to all women.

if you think that being embarrassed is going to put me off interacting in a way that might increase my understanding of the world then you've got another think coming.

Oh believe me, I don't think embarrassing yourself is going to stop you.

@Battleneck
23 pages in and you're still not getting it and asking for further explanation?

You were spotted by your first post and your problem with denial is not ours to fix.

NDFOD and grow up.

Someone posted this earlier and it’s brilliant! I can’t find the post but thank you whoever you were it’s so good!

“WOMEN! WOMEN EVERYWHERE! A RANDOM MAN HAS LIFE ADVICE!” 🤣🤣🤣

@Taliskerskye

Cunts they are all cunts Thank the lord everyday that you’re not married to one or one isn’t your dad.

And well done for answering back. The stupid cunting cunts

Second this 🤣

someone on this thread said (I read it but cannot find it now) that it is safe to assume that all random interaction by men to women has men's desire for sex at the heart of it.
The desire can be more nebulous - eg just a desire to feel like they are dominating the woman in question, the woman thinks they are worthy to be interacted with or to prove (to themselves) their superiority over women.

Sometimes it can be much more overt - eg commenting on the woman's body or even touching it.

The offensive thing from my point of view is that it all comes from a place of the man really only considering the woman as a sexual object - not a fellow human being worthy of getting to know with thoughts and feelings. No, women are exclusively there as either (i) sexual objects the "point" of which is that the man could theoretically derive pleasure from them; or (ii) nurturers by which read servants (i.e the mother category).

It feels sad, there have been times in my life where i have thought "maybe i could get to know this man as a friend" but it never pans out that way and it often leaves me feeling "less" or some kind of "shame"

@Battleneck So how much explanation do you require? There are hundreds of women on here that have done so already, clearly and articulately

@Taliskerskye

I’m actually going to use Thanks for your comment random man in the future

Me too OP :)

I might even alter it to 'thanks for the comment you random' - why even acknowledge the 'man' bit?

My favourite men wouldn't dream of talking to women like that.

Battleneck - If you can’t get your head around it when countless women have shared their experiences then not sure what else can be said. Also, you need to ‘get it’ for it to be valid. It just is whether you get it or not.

You DONT need to get it for it to be valid I meant.

@IsItAKindofDream

Battleneck it’s not just “3 seconds”. It’s judging where you think the interaction is going to go. Do I ignore him? If yes, he might turn on me. Do I reply? If yes, he might turn on me if I don’t respond in the way he wants, or if I don’t continue to engage after the first response.

It’s a lot of mental energy. And it is relentless.

As a previous poster said, read the visual cues before engaging with someone. Women are not here for your entertainment.

ONE HUNDRED PERCENT

Read this comment @Battleneck then read it again, and again

It doesn't really help. If you are minded to explain further maybe I will be able to understand better

To be clear - Obviously you have no obligation to trust my intentions, and obviously you have no obligation to help me understand

Well quite, so I'll carry on reading and talking to women on here, who have shared experiences that we compare notes, feelings, opinions on, without having to constantly explain whatabout to someone who doesn't 'get it' , it would be nice if the thread could be just about.... you know women talking about their experiences whether they agree with each other or not.

There are no rules about who can post, but it would be nice if you could at least see that you imposing your opinion here again again again is a distracting and stopping the natural flow of the thread of women talking about their experiences.

Maybe there should be a checklist…

1. is my comment needed/helpful/kind?
2. does the person look like they want to engage in coversation with me?
3. would I be happy to say whatever I say to anyone (male/female/young/old, whatever)?
4. would I like it if a stranger said it to me or my son/daughter/wife/mother etc?

If the answer to any of these is no, I suggest people should keep their thoughts to themselves. It’s not hard, most people manage it. I can’t really believe, after having women’s experiences pointed out over and over again, that men could get confused between an appropriate neutral greeting in passing and volunteering something inappropriate or patronising about a woman/girl’s expression/appearance/body/weight etc.

Also acknowledging the power differential. Old people and children can sometimes have a habit of making unsolicited personal remarks, sometimes it might be hurtful, but there is minimal threat of it escalating into violence/sexual violence which deep down all women fear, consciously or not. The discomfort women feel with uninvited engagement by unfamiliar men is a protection mechanism. Even if the majority are jolly nice guys, there is always a little voice telling reminding you to check your exits and don’t make him angry.

Then you've got another think (sic) coming

Was that ironic?

To use a different analogy @Battleneck think about racism. I am a white woman. When a black person tells me 'this person said x and it upset me because x' what I do is listen. And believe them. As a white woman as much as I try I will never truly understand their experience. They will have a different experience of just being in the world than they do. So I listen, believe them, critique my own behaviour and the behaviour of others. If I witness someone doing something racist I pull them up on it. Because I have listened to what the person has said.

[quote showmethegin]@Battleneck If you can't get your head around it maybe try harder? You have a thread here with hundreds upon hundreds of examples and explanations of exactly WHY it fucks us off, upsets us, angers us.

Speaking from personal experience it annoys me because of the intention. If a male friend says to me, 'you look nice!' I take it as a complement as I know the intention was good. When a random bloke tells me I'm fat, or fit, or have tits, or have nice legs, or am ugly, to smile, or a slag, or a frigid bitch or am asking for it, or offers advice on something I don't need advice on it is patronising/threatening/uncalled for.

I also don't think (despite the hundreds of examples) that you don't get how often it happens to women. I happens to me around 50% of the times I am out of the house. If I'm out for a longer time it usually happens more than once. These things wear you down, especially when there is absolutely no need for it. YOU may think it is innocent but the unbelievable arrogance that you literally have hundreds of women telling you how it feels and you still aren't convinced it is wrong!

[/quote]
Para 2 - I believe that I have posted on this thread that all of the things you are talking about are unacceptable and men shouldn't do them. If I haven't then I'll say it now. Unacceptable - sexual comments, anything to do with looks or policing what you're eating, the "cheer up love..." cliche, testing women, being patronizing, threatening, violent.

Para 3 - I don't get how often it happens to women, and whilst I can read and start to understand I don't believe that one can ever truly understand another's experience when it is so fundementally different as men's experience vs women's*. I spend quite a lot of time on the feminism board here, and my main take-away from it (and alone it is a good reason to come to mumsnet, though it is depressing) is how blatant sexism is absolutely everywhere. Every man should be forced to spend 30 minutes a day on there to try to drum it into their heads how fucked up our patriarchal society is.

• as a tangent I firmly believe that trans women are not women... even if surgery and hormones did a perfect job they would still lack one inherent part of being a woman - being treated by society as female from the date of their birth.

@KarenofSparta

*Me too OP

I might even alter it to 'thanks for the comment you random' - why even acknowledge the 'man' bit?

My favourite men wouldn't dream of talking to women like that.*

I feel like taking a note book out sarcastically and pretending to making a note of their ‘wisdom’ would be funny 🤣

I think that's a great example of a man reflexively seeking to 'take charge of the situation' and assert status; to act as if they're chairing the meeting (when no-one else thinks there is a meeting, rather a queue of individuals, who each need to wait their turn). @Gothichouse40

Quite a blatant way of asserting status i.e. 'I earn, so am important (despite being in charity shop and having to wait behind you, while you do your petty admin), you don't, so aren't'. Offshore investment billionaires are unlikely to be in a charity shop. Unwaged and low-waged (below tax threshold) women are.

And of course if a woman has engaged in a friendly matter with a man and he then assaults her, it can then be claimed that she lead him on/gave him the wrong idea/consented. women really can’t win here

In my old job my male boss used to always comment on my appearance.
Some days I wore makeup, some days I didn't.
The days I didn't he would say every time
"You look tired, is the baby keeping you up"
No, no she isn't. But thanks for commenting because I, just like you, have decided not to wear makeup today 🙄