The random comment men

[brokenbiscuitsx]

You know the ones, not the ‘leery car shouters’ but those who feel they can make comments about what you, a stranger, is doing when going about their business (and I’ll add not harming anyone!)

Just now I popped to the shop to collect a parcel, when I was there I grabbed a coffee from their Costa pod and a blueberry muffin. The man behind me piped up “You’ll get fat eating that” I was really taken aback so just said “thanks for your comment, random man” paid and then as I was walking out past him he said, no need to be so rude and mumbled ‘stroppy cow’ but I heard.

I wasn’t rude I just asserted myself and that is the issue isn’t it. He was expecting me to laugh along ‘oh I already am tee hee’ (I’m not) but no, I’m sick of it.

It happens too often as well. I have had a random man comment on how I could run better in the park when I was having a break and a man who saw my Led Zeppelin tshirt and said ‘what’s your favourite song then?’ So I said ‘Heartbreaker- you probably haven’t heard of it’ and he mumbled something at me and walked off (I knew he was trying to catch me out, hoping I didn’t know any songs!)

I don’t really know what my AIBU is, I guess, is it rude? Should I have just smiled sweetly like the passive woman I am meant to be. I’m just sick of these types of men! He took offence with me speaking up, perhaps he should learn not to make comments to random strangers.

Does anyone else get this, maybe I have that sort of face that men can’t help commenting to. If so, how do you cope with it?

Just, ugh, makes me angry.

@NoLeafClover

I suppose, in conclusion, your words reflect the main reason I hang out on mumsnet - to be reminded of and learn about the constant sexism that women face. So that you can then dismiss and belittle women's experiences, make excuses for sexism and abuse, and mock it, *@Battleneck*? Well if that's your aim, bravo, you're doing a great job.

I also struggle with how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back. Do you? Honestly, do you? Okay, here's some insight. Because men who have engaged me in 'random chat' have been verbally abusive, have grabbed my arse, have pinned me up against a wall, shoved their hand up my top and groped me. Because an old friend of mine, when walking home, stopped to respond to chat from a random man and was brutally raped and murdered. Because that's what can happen when you engage with the poor sociable bloke who's just trying to make conversation by telling you that your choice of snack will make you fat (or call you an ugly cunt, fucking dyke, or slag, all of which I've experienced, btw). That's why it's not like water off a duck's back. I suspect that you know this.

I think that completely misses the point of what I said, misrepresents and misquotes me (where did I use the ducks back phrase?), and confuses an initial interaction with criminal behaviour that follows. I understand completely if your experience means that you never want a stranger to say a word to you unless they are serving you in a shop or restaurant, but driving a bus isn't inherently evil just because one hit me once when I was crossing the road

Still spectacularly not getting it, @Battleneck.

"Gaming, Music, Cosplay, they are too often seen as 'male' interests and women taking part are resented"

back in 1999 when I was starting my career (in a very male dominated sector) and Manchester United were about to play against Newcastle in May I remember the office chat - even the most innocuous comment from me (I was a massive footie fan) made the entire male group go silent as if to say "women don't like football" and some even had a look of disdain on their faces.

it was totally uncalled for, there was nothing personal about my remark, it was simply that I am a woman and had the audacity to make a tiny remark in a conversation about football.

Battleneck where did I use the ducks back phrase?
Your post on Wed 28-Jul-21 13:50:29 literally included your words:
I also struggle with how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back.

Forgetful? Or Gaslighting?

@Taliskerskye

I’m actually going to use Thanks for your comment random man in the future

It'd be better without the passive thanks in it. I think "random comment from a random man" is better, though I'm sure someone wittier can think of something much better

This thread OP having to clarify that she likes decent men because of all the fucking mansplainers here. Take your NotAllMen to Dadsnet.

I don't get the smile comments much now(I think? not sure I register some stuff anymore) but I'd normally ignore or crease my face into so much of an angry frown they are usually too shocked to comment further.

I think it must have happened a lot when pre teen and teenager, because by 16 just thought this was how people interacted and I genuinely use to just use to say it to any random bloke I was passing "giss a smile" or "smile it'll never happen" I remember the confused looks and sometimes just a snort sort of laughter of acknowledgment.

If I wanted to be obnoxious to an intimidating group of lads I'd shout "get your tits out for the ladies!" again confused faces as it made no sense on so many levels.

I think I was a bit messed up

Anything other then a smile comment aimed at me, and I would respond with "fuck off dick head"
My response use to get me in trouble as it would lead to verbal attacks and sometimes physical from them. So after 16 I suppose I learnt the rules the hard way, it's ok for men to be obnoxious, rude, have an option on me whether it be slag, bitch, fat, ugly, big tits, suck my cock and stuff, but it wasn't ok for me to retaliate the same. unless I wanted hounding down the street, followed, threaten or even grabbed, punched, shoved.

Even not laughing at some ridiculous joke they thought was 'banta' would result in miserable bitch.

Amazing I am able to have random chit chat with strangers of the opposite sex, I think my tiny lady must have a ickle small part that can decipher what is chit chat and what is just a random man comment. Who knew I was capable of that 🤷‍♀️

I think this behaviour is a lot to do with seeking to take charge of any given situation. So announcing their presence, then asserting dominance if they feel they can. Men often cannot just 'be' alongside other people who are just 'being'. It seems to make them uncomfortable.

I wonder if this is to do with masculine ideas of social hierarchy (including physical threat) - I find men are much, much more wedded to hierarchy as a concept and way of organising people, at work and at play, than are women. They feel a need to know their place in the pack, will seek to obtain high status whenever they can, are happy to 'scrap' and bare their teeth a bit to achieve that and will misunderstand lack of response as acquiescence to their assertion.

Low status men think they can get a cheap ego boost by seeking to dominate women.

@IsItAKindofDream

Battleneck where did I use the ducks back phrase? Your post on Wed 28-Jul-21 13:50:29 literally included your words: I also struggle with how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back.

Forgetful? Or Gaslighting?

Partly forgetful, and partly the search function on mumsnet (or my ability to use the search function) failing me when I searched to check whether I said it and the context. Sorry.

Please note the full paragraph -

"I think your last sentence actually cuts to what might be the biggest issue here... your perception that men believe that it is their RIGHT to say and do whatever they like is probably pretty accurate... I suppose what I can't get my head around is that many of them also believe that women should listen and obey, and I also struggle with how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back - after all why the fuck should any woman listen to any strange man, not least one so utterly clueless that they believe women should obey."

To be clear - I am a man - I cannot get my head around "how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back". I am not in any way saying that women are wrong not to be able to shrug it off completely. I am saying that as a man, in a patriarchal society, never having had to face any real sexism, let alone sexism day in day out since I was a toddler, I find it exceptionally hard to get my head around why women wouldn't just say to themselves "bloke is being a knob, I don't give a shit what knobs say, because they're knobs."

I'd love to know how much of my arrogance is my inherent personality, my family upbringing, my schooling or the fact that I am a man in a patriarchal society. But whatever the cause I CAN'T GET MY HEAD AROUND how many people give a shit what random fucking idiots say. that does not make women "wrong", that doesn't mean I am "right".

I can get my head around how many women - some much more than others - are going to be wary or even scared as a result of any sort of interaction, even the most innocuous, because they have experience of things turning sour.

I am sure that all sorts of people disagree with me on these issues, and that's fair enough, but I find it really frustrating that when I say I can't get my head round something other people ignore the LITERAL WORDS I HAVE TYPED and assume that I am saying something else.

@Yaya26

An ambulance driver said "smile it might never happen" to me as I sat in his ambulance in my nightie with my baby girl in her cot waiting for him to transfer us from the maternity hospital to the children's hospital. She died a few days later. I felt my stomach churn. I could only think "it is happening"

What a d**k.

Fucking hell, that's awful. I'm so sorry.

What a grade a twat. I can't even believe he said that in an ambulance. Ugh x a million.

NewYearNewTwatName

"Amazing I am able to have random chit chat with strangers of the opposite sex, I think my tiny lady must have a ickle small part that can decipher what is chit chat and what is just a random man comment. Who knew I was capable of that "

If I'm interpreting you correctly, this is kinda what I've been trying to say... plenty of men are knobs, plenty aren't... obviously it would be great if the knobs never left their houses or gaffa-taped their gobs shut if they did need to pop to the shops, but the implication from many on this thread seems to be that men need to keep their heads down and speak to strangers out of necessity only, and I think that's taking it too far.

I am saying that as a man, in a patriarchal society, never having had to face any real sexism, let alone sexism day in day out since I was a toddler, I find it exceptionally hard to get my head around why women wouldn't just say to themselves "bloke is being a knob, I don't give a shit what knobs say, because they're knobs."

Why should I have my day interrupted^^ just so a man can demonstrate what a knob he is? Why should it be on me as the woman in the situation to say to myself "that bloke is being a knob", and put up with him being a knob by staying silent, rather than calling him out on his knobbery? Why should I have to choose between allowing him to be a knob to me while I stay passive, or facing an insult at best and violence at worst?
^
Why should it be on women to manage their response to men, why can't men behave reasonably instead???^

Battleneck. Instead of reminding us again to read your words, why don’t you just read the words women have shared on this thread. Then you might be able to get your head around it.

Your shouty demand that we read your posts is practically giving a master class in what we are tying to say about men turning on us if we don’t show then due deference.

Battleneck, please stop embarrassing yourself.

@lottiegarbanzo

I think this behaviour is a lot to do with seeking to take charge of any given situation. So announcing their presence, then asserting dominance if they feel they can. Men often cannot just 'be' alongside other people who are just 'being'. It seems to make them uncomfortable.

I wonder if this is to do with masculine ideas of social hierarchy (including physical threat) - I find men are much, much more wedded to hierarchy as a concept and way of organising people, at work and at play, than are women. They feel a need to know their place in the pack, will seek to obtain high status whenever they can, are happy to 'scrap' and bare their teeth a bit to achieve that and will misunderstand lack of response as acquiescence to their assertion.

Low status men think they can get a cheap ego boost by seeking to dominate women.

That might be part of my failure to truly understand how some men are and - as a result - to truly understand how their behaviour affects women.

I have strengths and weaknesses, I don't think of myself as an alpha male (though I've just googled and found a list of traits and two third or so apply to me I think), I don't really give a shit about social hierarchy (but then again if I was low status maybe I would). Anyway, I just have no concept of what it must be like as a woman dealing with low status men looking for power.

If only all the bad men looked like monsters.
If only most bad male behaviour was perpetrated by bad men.

Oh, the banality of evil.
Oh, the blindness of privilege.

Oh, the banality of evil. Oh, the blindness of privilege.

Yep.

@Battleneck you are not a woman so will never understand. Why don't you just go away now and stop trying to force your opinions on us, we don't care

@ZeldaPrincessOfHyrule

I am saying that as a man, in a patriarchal society, never having had to face any real sexism, let alone sexism day in day out since I was a toddler, I find it exceptionally hard to get my head around why women wouldn't just say to themselves "bloke is being a knob, I don't give a shit what knobs say, because they're knobs."

Why should I have my day interrupted^^ just so a man can demonstrate what a knob he is? Why should it be on me as the woman in the situation to say to myself "that bloke is being a knob", and put up with him being a knob by staying silent, rather than calling him out on his knobbery? Why should I have to choose between allowing him to be a knob to me while I stay passive, or facing an insult at best and violence at worst?
^
Why should it be on women to manage their response to men, why can't men behave reasonably instead???^

You shouldn't have your day interrupted just so a man can demonstrate what a know he is. Saying that, having to listen for 3 seconds whilst you are queuing in a bakery is not a particular significant interruption to a day.

You shouldn't have to choose between silence and risking insult or violence. Obviously.

Obviously women shouldn't have to manage their responses to men, obviously men should behave reasonably.

Battleneck Well actually you are reading it wrong.

HTH

[quote thanksforyourcommentrandomman]@Battleneck you are not a woman so will never understand. Why don't you just go away now and stop trying to force your opinions on us, we don't care[/quote]
I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone.

@NewYearNewTwatName

Battleneck Well actually you are reading it wrong.

HTH

It doesn't really help. If you are minded to explain further maybe I will be able to understand better.

To be clear - Obviously you have no obligation to trust my intentions, and obviously you have no obligation to help me understand.

This is an interesting approach

Battleneck I’m a woman, and I understood where you are coming from. I also don’t understand why anyone would let anything a random says bother them, or why they choose to interact with dicks in response. I used to work in a role where, every single day, I would come across people both men and women who were vying for the title of biggest cunt in the universe. If I didn’t shrug it off like water off a ducks back I would have been six foot under decades ago riddled with ulcers. I really don’t get it when people take on stuff such as the examples in the OP let alone interact with someone over it.

@Battleneck If you can't get your head around it maybe try harder? You have a thread here with hundreds upon hundreds of examples and explanations of exactly WHY it fucks us off, upsets us, angers us.

Speaking from personal experience it annoys me because of the intention. If a male friend says to me, 'you look nice!' I take it as a complement as I know the intention was good. When a random bloke tells me I'm fat, or fit, or have tits, or have nice legs, or am ugly, to smile, or a slag, or a frigid bitch or am asking for it, or offers advice on something I don't need advice on it is patronising/threatening/uncalled for.

I also don't think (despite the hundreds of examples) that you don't get how often it happens to women. I happens to me around 50% of the times I am out of the house. If I'm out for a longer time it usually happens more than once. These things wear you down, especially when there is absolutely no need for it. YOU may think it is innocent but the unbelievable arrogance that you literally have hundreds of women telling you how it feels and you still aren't convinced it is wrong!