The random comment men

[brokenbiscuitsx]

You know the ones, not the ‘leery car shouters’ but those who feel they can make comments about what you, a stranger, is doing when going about their business (and I’ll add not harming anyone!)

Just now I popped to the shop to collect a parcel, when I was there I grabbed a coffee from their Costa pod and a blueberry muffin. The man behind me piped up “You’ll get fat eating that” I was really taken aback so just said “thanks for your comment, random man” paid and then as I was walking out past him he said, no need to be so rude and mumbled ‘stroppy cow’ but I heard.

I wasn’t rude I just asserted myself and that is the issue isn’t it. He was expecting me to laugh along ‘oh I already am tee hee’ (I’m not) but no, I’m sick of it.

It happens too often as well. I have had a random man comment on how I could run better in the park when I was having a break and a man who saw my Led Zeppelin tshirt and said ‘what’s your favourite song then?’ So I said ‘Heartbreaker- you probably haven’t heard of it’ and he mumbled something at me and walked off (I knew he was trying to catch me out, hoping I didn’t know any songs!)

I don’t really know what my AIBU is, I guess, is it rude? Should I have just smiled sweetly like the passive woman I am meant to be. I’m just sick of these types of men! He took offence with me speaking up, perhaps he should learn not to make comments to random strangers.

Does anyone else get this, maybe I have that sort of face that men can’t help commenting to. If so, how do you cope with it?

Just, ugh, makes me angry.

I suppose, in conclusion, your words reflect the main reason I hang out on mumsnet - to be reminded of and learn about the constant sexism that women face. So that you can then dismiss and belittle women's experiences, make excuses for sexism and abuse, and mock it, @Battleneck? Well if that's your aim, bravo, you're doing a great job.

I also struggle with how many women are unable to shrug it off completely like water off a ducks back. Do you? Honestly, do you? Okay, here's some insight. Because men who have engaged me in 'random chat' have been verbally abusive, have grabbed my arse, have pinned me up against a wall, shoved their hand up my top and groped me. Because an old friend of mine, when walking home, stopped to respond to chat from a random man and was brutally raped and murdered. Because that's what can happen when you engage with the poor sociable bloke who's just trying to make conversation by telling you that your choice of snack will make you fat (or call you an ugly cunt, fucking dyke, or slag, all of which I've experienced, btw). That's why it's not like water off a duck's back. I suspect that you know this.

and this thread is why the lense through which I ask my daughter (12 yrs) to look at the world is way way smaller than I would like it to be. Because if it was much wider and more fearless, what might happen?

Yes it is very possible to raise a fearless and brave girl, to ignore daily random comments.

But it is that nebulous line of accepting that you are (generally) physically weaker than the average man - so if any of these so called "random men" decided to take it beyond the apparently innocuous comment - your daughter would have no chance .

I don't get it. The first example in the OP was of a rude man, and you should have been equally (or doubly) rude. But the second was just someone making conversation. I don't see how these two examples go together.

I had a random twat postman at the depot tell me to "cheer up love, it'll never happen."

I turned around and walked at him shouting "who the flying fuck do you think you are you miserable cunt? It'll never happen? It fucking has just happened! My mother has just died and that's why I fucking look like this!"

All his wee postie mates were staring and he started walking backwards gabbling apologies.

My mum's not dead. She's absolutely fine and lovely.

Prick.

"do you also say things to your male colleagues and friends like, "I'm just too scared to even say hello to women anymore in case I get accused of sexual harassment.""

This comment from @TiredButDancing reminded me of this incredible and on-the-money speech from Arabella in I May Destroy You. They KNOW where the line is. They skirt it because they can.

An ambulance driver said "smile it might never happen" to me as I sat in his ambulance in my nightie with my baby girl in her cot waiting for him to transfer us from the maternity hospital to the children's hospital. She died a few days later. I felt my stomach churn. I could only think "it is happening"

What a d**k.

He was a youngish man too.

I am almost disabled. My leg is deformed and doesn’t fit into the hip socket properly. I am trying to remain fit and flexible for as long as possible to stave off some pretty gruesome surgery. I walk relatively normally, and you can only see that I have a seriously wonky leg when I am wearing gym tights and standing up, facing forwards. Despite being 49 years old, I constantly have men aged between 18 and 80 trying to correct my form and asking me to “spot them” and try to start up a conversation while I am in the middle of working out. I keep trying to work out why…. Is it because they assume…
a) I am giving out “come and have a chat” signals? (No… I’m busy lifting heavy things and distracting myself from the pain by listening to feminist podcasts.)
b) I am there to hook up like they are. (Nope, Married and menopausal.)
C). I have been perving at them and am unable to resist their manly charms.

This is my new gym t-shirt.

I have another theory about the “Random Man/Power Thing”:- when you are going about your own business and they shout something or derail you, it stops you and makes them feel like a Superhero. This is where the saying “Stopped her in her tracks” must come from. They walk towards us on footpaths and don’t ever ever out of our trajectory. It is always up to us to move. They leave their trolley across they aisles, so that we have to either wait or ask them to get out of the way. It’s an entrapment thing.

@Yaya26 I’m so, so very sorry. 💔

Thinking about it, I’m 5ft 10 and only tend to get the random comments when I’m cycling. There seems to be a correlation between me being clearly taller than many random men and not obviously so.

@UpstreamSwimmer

I don't get it. The first example in the OP was of a rude man, and you should have been equally (or doubly) rude. But the second was just someone making conversation. I don't see how these two examples go together.

OP's instinct was that he wasn't saying "oh hey, i love that band too, let's chat about it", but "I bet you actually know nothing about that band on your t-shirt". An opinion he'd likely not have formed, and certainly not vocalised, were she a man.

I can completely trust her instinct on this. Firstly because we just know. But also because it's really common. It happens all the time if you're a woman who likes football or other sports. Music. Even politics to an extent. And leaves you stuck between a rock and a hard place because you either have to pander to their pathetic little tests, or refuse to do so and have them assume your refusal to engage with their fuckwittery is confirmation they were right.

Ugh. Dickheads.

@tommyhoundmum

I'd have taken all the inane clunky comments with a pinch of salt and smiled sweetly. Not everyone has good repartee but it's not necessary to be cutting towards them unless the comment is sexual and then I would slap.

You would slap a man for a sexual comment towards you? Speechless.

@MinnieMountain - I think you’re right. I’m just a smidge over 5ft, and despite my decrepit age (49), I am assailed with unsolicited opinions on a nearly daily basis. I’m also blonde and petite and I think that screams “Not a threat” in big letters to these Wankbadgers.

@StopCryingYourHeartOut

I hate this shit too. Not had it in a long time. I remember a guy saying to me once on the street and I just said 'fuck off'. I got a load of verbal abuse back but it was still very satisfying.

Am I the only one however who thinks that OP's response was actually rather crap?
These blokes probably aren't that smart and he possibly actually did think you were genuinely thanking him.

He called her a stroppy cow so clearly realised she wasn't grateful for his "advice" 😃

Just to clarify about the band Tshirt. I didn’t articulate it well and it’s hard to convey tone in writing.

It was his tone and the way he’d been looking. I know, it’s hard to explain but you’d know if you were there. It wasn’t “ohh what’s your favourite song?” It was “What’s your favourite song then?” with the tone and underlying meaning that I didn’t know the band and he wanted to catch me out and subsequently embarrass me.

Am I the only one however who thinks that OP's response was actually rather crap?
These blokes probably aren't that smart and he possibly actually did think you were genuinely thanking him.

I said it flat tone with a sigh.

I did want to use more colourful language but

1. I do worry about reactions, I have had a man verbally abuse me in a train station for asserting myself like that so I’m wary of doing so. Also there seems to be a huge correlation between men who feel empowered enough to behave this way and men who will kick off if their ‘masculinity’ is challenged.

1. I actually hate confrontation and it’s a big thing for me to say anything at all (This phrase ‘thank you for your comment, random man’ I picked up from social media and it makes me feel confident enough to respond in what I feel is a safe way). See point 1.

I know exactly what you mean, brokenbiscuits. I can totally hear the tone of voice. It wasn't a chatty 'ooh, I love that band, my absolute favourite song is whatever, what about you' which is nice and conversational (and how I met one of my best friends, she commented on my John Frusciante t-shirt while we were queuing in a shop, and we got chatting and arranged to go for a drink to continue talking about our excitement at meeting fellow JF fans). What RCM said to you was more of a challenge and meant to trip you up as he expected you to be unable to answer. It certainly wasn't a means to open a nice conversation about your shared taste in music.

@UpstreamSwimmer

I don't get it. The first example in the OP was of a rude man, and you should have been equally (or doubly) rude. But the second was just someone making conversation. I don't see how these two examples go together.

They do go together.

I can't find the tweet now but there is a thread where a woman is talking about wearing a gaming t-shirt in public, and a man approaches her and insists she's never even played the game. So she told him the ending.

Another woman joins the conversation to say a similar thing happened to her, except that she actually wrote the code for the game in question, and had paperwork with her to prove it.

This kind of posturing by some men about their fandoms is common. Gaming, Music, Cosplay, they are too often seen as 'male' interests and women taking part are resented.

Have you seen the picture of Natalie Portman in the Stop Wars t-shirt? Someone calls her a stupid fucking hipster who has probably never even seen the Star Wars films. Someone else points out she starred in them.

There's another one of a Cosplayer dressed as Duela Dent from the DC comics. She's getting comments from the 'real' fans to say she's a gender-swapped Joker in a Willy Wonka hat, then it's pointed out to them that she is an actual character they just haven't heard of.

It might be harder to tell just by seeing it written down, but the OP was there to see the man's facial expressions, his body language, his tone of voice. She knows if he was just making conversation or expecting to catch her out, so there's no reason not to believe her. Some men just do not like to see a woman on their territory, and they especially don't like it when the woman turns out to know plenty about it.

This is exactly it it, thanks @SnoopyLights ☺️👍🏻 Which is why I picked another song over some well known faves such as Whole Lotta Love as I could foresee his response “everyone knows that one!”

People saying these Random Comment Men are just making conversation… it’s not the same. They seem to be (in my experience) the same type of men who also do the following:

Me somewhere minding my own business
RCM: That’s a nice dress
Me: Thank you
RCM: Get over yourself, actually it’s ugly
Me: Okay….

and billions of variations on that where you’re paid a compliment accept it and then told you’re up yourself. What you’re meant to say is, ‘this old thing? No, it’s awful tee hee’
Basically, how dare you think positive things about yourself, a man needs to tell you you’re acceptable and then you still have to coyly disagree.

🙄

There was a group of men shouting things outside a pub once when I was waiting for a bus. One shouted to this lady with big breasts "show us your t*ts" She shouted back "show us your di@k first but actually its probably that small I know I wont see it. He didnt know where to put himself.

I’ve never seen men telling other men to smile …

As a small scowling bloke I assure you they do, regularly

Agree it's a power play though

I have to say (although no one has said this directly) I don’t dislike men. I actually love men and have a fab one myself. I just hate the nobhead ones 🤣

@OneTC

I’ve never seen men telling other men to smile …

As a small scowling bloke I assure you they do, regularly

Agree it's a power play though

That has surprised me, thanks for this insight.

They really are brazen aren’t they.

Can I ask, as a man, do you feel you can challenge them or do you ignore?

@Justilou1

I am almost disabled. My leg is deformed and doesn’t fit into the hip socket properly. I am trying to remain fit and flexible for as long as possible to stave off some pretty gruesome surgery. I walk relatively normally, and you can only see that I have a seriously wonky leg when I am wearing gym tights and standing up, facing forwards. Despite being 49 years old, I constantly have men aged between 18 and 80 trying to correct my form and asking me to “spot them” and try to start up a conversation while I am in the middle of working out. I keep trying to work out why…. Is it because they assume… a) I am giving out “come and have a chat” signals? (No… I’m busy lifting heavy things and distracting myself from the pain by listening to feminist podcasts.) b) I am there to hook up like they are. (Nope, Married and menopausal.) C). I have been perving at them and am unable to resist their manly charms.

This is my new gym t-shirt.

I have another theory about the “Random Man/Power Thing”:- when you are going about your own business and they shout something or derail you, it stops you and makes them feel like a Superhero. This is where the saying “Stopped her in her tracks” must come from. They walk towards us on footpaths and don’t ever ever out of our trajectory. It is always up to us to move. They leave their trolley across they aisles, so that we have to either wait or ask them to get out of the way. It’s an entrapment thing.

Or d) they think if they "help" you they stand a chance of picking you up.

To them I'm not enough to worry about needling me, but I'm enough of a man to get a slap so I'm careful in general

Most people who engage you like that want to come out on top so most of the time the quietest and quickest way is to give them their little victory, for me anyway. Fair play to you for having a come back