Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

bigboobs, just re-read that thing about your sister's baby. No baby should only be waking once a night at 6 weeks, that's totally weird!!! (Not that her baby's weird...oh you know what I mean). Waking up every 2, 3, 4 hours is completely normal - they wouldn't thrive or survive unless they did. It just sucks for us poor Mums who get knackered...but it doesn't last.

dream, they sort of went that way themselves and I just encouraged them. I think getting them up at 7am helps as by 9am they're totally conked out.

Her baby must be weird red, or more likely she is just lieing exaggerating. u find lots of people do, which just makes everyone else feel crap and inadequate. I am more of a tell it how it is -in the hope others will say they are experiencing the same sleep deprivation!

managed a whole day out today, with all my 3 in red white and blue for a village street party. not a royalist but love an excuse for a party. lots of booze as well, but sadly not for me. don't think I am yet at the stage of managing all 3 dcs whilst tipsy-la-la!

you lot have inspired me! gonna start a bed 'time' and routine TOMORROW!

I dont know how you all do it with an older dc! Well done mums!

red why worry when you change the dts? Ive said before whatever works for you do it...do they get theyre clothes very dirty in the night then?!? I only do it as I have time but some days we dont and I dont worry! Erm..maybe Im a slattern too .

For what its worth katys routine sound fantastic well done Katy and a must with older dc's but Im such a lazy cow Im quite a laidback person (helps I dont have older dc's! and can afford to be) but heres the bits of our 'routine' we tend to stick to. Day time is feed (whenever hungry 2 1/2-3 1/2 hours), play, sleep (Im talking 20 min cat nap ha ha) and night is bath, bottle in bedroom with lights low (in sleepsuits and grobags),bed. Ideally between 6.30-8 depending on how the day went. They are 17 weeks now and sleep for 11 hours its usually 7-6 so at that feed its nappy change first (they never seem to poo at that feed and if so we change them after) bottle and straight back down cos I am soo lazy they do wake all happy at 8 for the day though. If the feed is at 7 we get up though. And I protest/drink strong coffee for hours-I used to have a job you know! Its gonna kill me when I go back! I realise this makes me sound lazy but I can afford to be not having older dc's seriously you have to have a set time for things then but could still help them differ night and day?

bigboobs do you mind them feeding 2 1/2 hourly in the day? If not Id just say feed em but obviously not good at night I thought that if they got enough ounces in the day they would be ok anyway but I could be wrong. Maybe they will work that out? Also do you believe the old wives tale that they are 12lb before sleeping longer that was definately the case for us? If you do mind though Obviously you need to do something but I have no advice sorry I hope someone will soon.

Sorry guys I know you didnt ask my advice i just think we all get so hung up on routines that constantly need to change for varying reasons and the babies are all grown up before we know it. I stringly believe it clicks into place with most babies and although you have to be on the ball (older dc's etc) you have to enjoy them too.

O god she waffles again...bedtime for me lol.

Hugs ladies good sleep for you guys tonight xx

dreaming hope this inspires you. My twins both had colic and silent reflux and it was shit sucked badly . I was exhausted. We did a few things though-gripe water in EVERY feed, baby gaviscon in EVERY feed. bedtime routine and stuck. O yes they cried. They still so get a bit grumpy in the evening. I swear a lot of the crying was due to overtiredness I had no clue when my dts2 was crying I would cwtch him, he would cry more, I would cwtch him more, he would scream I was too scared to PUT him down when I think its all he wanted I was missing his sleep cues and he was not happy! It gets better (and better).

mine, you've just outed yourself with all those cwtches! We cwtch here too.

I agree re: routines. I was amazed that my demand fed DD was on the same 'routine' as my mates GForded baby. They do seem to all settle into basically the same pattern. But colic does suck...

I mowed the lawn today. Almost felt like a normal person. Went out for my own on a walk round the block, bought sweets for myself at the corner shop. It was sunny - not sure why any of this gives me such pleasure! Am a proper saddo me.

What is a cwtch??
Well after having had the luxury of uninterrupted nights for a few weeks, DTD woke at 1 last night and wouldn't resettle till nearly 3, then was awake at 630. I don't know if she was scared by the torrential rain, whether she was teething, or just hungry, she fed for a long time which usually sends her back to sleep but this did not work last night. I am knackered and now have to pack everything for our trip to see the jubilee pageant which I really don't want to go to but DH and the inlaws are very keen (we're only 20 mins by train but it's going to be so busy and it's still raining).

Have a good jubilee weekend!

I don't know what cwtch is either, but as red is Welsh, I'm guessing *wine? is too?!

Made it to a wedding yesterday. A no children one, so just took the boys and left DD with my dad as it was in my hometown (who's knackered his back badly though, so actually was his wife as he can't even lift her). Very tiring but the boys did ok. Lots of people to jig crying babies anyway.

I have to leave the boys when doing things with DD wine, when i know they must be tired- like after bath time- but DT2 will cry and cry until he's got salty tear tracks dried into his cheeks by the end but not go to sleep :( . He did once, but only slept 15 minutes anyway... And I can't go down any kind of cc route, even if they were old enough. I'd finally got both boys to sleep tonight when teething DD woke up, and now DT1, with a stinking cold so very mucousy and vomity- is up again. The only routine i really want to click is bedtime!!! And sleeping at night of course!

Oh, DT1 wretching, gr puked on if i don't go...

Just got my 2 asleep - resorted to bringing them both downstairs and they are now in their bouncy chairs. Not ideal but means I might get an hour or 2 sleep.

Cwtch - Welsh for cuddle??

Hope you are having a better night than me dream!

Dream - what fab progress, hurray! For us co-sleeping is the only way we get any sleep at all... we just try to keep their heads nice and clear from duvets and pillows and it seems to work ok. Either way i am constantly in awe of you keeping on as you do. Try not to worry too much about them regressing because once they do something you at least know they can do it again - lets hope they do, eh?! (Having said that mine slept 7/8 hrs a couple of times when they were a week or so old!! ...grrf)

I will check out these exciting-sounding photos and probably post some of my own when i'm on the pc later (currently on my shiny new tablet which i mostly got so that i can remain sane while spending hours dealing with the twins...)

Red - your routine sounds great. I feel a bit of a hopeless case at the moment; getting more and more tired, obviously needing sleep but so extremely tired physically too. ds1 hasn't got a regular bath time and therefore doesn't get one as often as he should, and in the meantime i am constantly struggling with all my evenings alone. It's all i can do to get ds into bed because the twins are usually screaming constantly despite up to 2 hours of attempting to settle them :( With nights jacob has suddenly started screaming at any point the hubby tries to hold him, e.g. while waiting his turn for a feed if he wakes 2nd, or after he feeds and im feeding toby. He basically will not hush until i hold him, meaning we get irritable as we're terrified of waking ds1... On the plus side toby is sleeping for most longer stretches i give him, i.e if jacob takes hours to get to sleep/has extra boob and then doesn't next want food for a while, toby will usually sleep right up til i wake him (i try to feed at same time) which can be 5 hours or so. I think one time i left him asleep he slept for another hour after that before he woke for food (but of course wont be doing that regularly, i wake enough as it is!!!)

Oh and i only change the twins' clothes in the morn if they have sicked/pooed on them at the time. They get them dirty often enough - no need to add yet more washing to the pile!!

Hope you've all survived the night!

Yeah, cwtch is a cuddle...I've even got Egyptian DH saying it.

I'm feeling very sorry for myself here. We're all ill, but it's really struck me down and whilst I had DH's help yesterday it wasn't up to much as he was feeling rough too and was being a bit childish about the fact I wasn't helping much. He doesn't mean it and knows he's being an idiot, but honestly I've not had a bad day since the boys birth so I'm allowed one day where I have a nap during the afternoon? Surely!!! We're back on our own this morning and DD is acting up as she's ill and I've got no patience and my blessed nap routine didn't work with the DT's. Agh. I hate days like this. This is one of the main reasons we're moving back to the UK so when it all falls apart I can get my Mum to come and take over!

dream, well done you for going to the wedding and your poor Dad, hope his back is better soon. I've got a wedding in September that's no children, but I'm hoping the DTs can come...

Ugh, Lemele I feel for you doing the night time routine all on your own. Whilst I 'can' do it, I don't enjoy any of it and it always involves huge amounts of crying...grrr

bigboobs, if i hadn't had some expressed milk for bottles last night I'd have lost the plot. I got 3 hours sleep while dh kept them downstairs. I'm kind of reassured that he can't get them both asleep either and its not just me and kind of depressed by it! He handed back at 4am and i fed the awake one, left the sleeping one and dozed accidentally as I was so tired with my boob still hanging out til 5 when Seb woke up and that was it til morning... I was at least in bed, but with both boys, on a memory foam mattress, on their tummies... Safe cosleeping?! I think not yet another one not to tell the hv . oh, and after the first waking, DD was also sick in the night. From coughing not a bug thankfully as the children all have stinking colds- well, Ben's is milder. Still, I love these babies (& DD of course) so much, and we had a lovely day out at a farm park with them all today. DD was very brave and went on the bouncy castle there. She's growing up so fast now, 21 months in 5 days time!!

bigboobs, bouncy chairs are about a million times better than the shameful tummies on my bed that happened here. I've tried them, and swinging chairs, and mine often spend parts of the night in them... I'm holding onto the hope that claires took a good while to settle but have done/ are doing now.

How are things Claire? You've been quite quiet recently. I saw a baby jogger city select today and thought of you (siblings not twins in it though). I also still think of you every time the Amazon man comes !!!, have things settled down after the earthquakes?

Hi lemele, I tried bath/ -bedtime by myself and it was a disaster... By the end of the baths DT2 was totally hysterical as he'd been in first and was waiting. I was so stressed out by the screaming (both were,+ DD shouting) that I don't know how you do it regularly, hats off to you. I also spend hours trying to settle them, they just scream too. Until they scream themselves sick if I'm busy with the other and can't go to him soon enough... So i always end up just bringing them downstairs again. DD couldn't go to sleep with that racket anyway, she's only a stud wall away from them and all those from the ante natal thread when i was there know I've just had improvement after 6 months of Sleep Hell with DD too. Love to see some photos of your boys. :) .

I thought everyone had sicked on clothes by the morning and it was only the severity that varied! Well, I've not had a morning i wouldn't have had to change them for a looong time...

Anyway, hello everyone else :)

X posts red, urgh, you poor thing. The wheels would well and truly fall off the wagon if i was ill here. They did the one day I felt ill, and that was with no ill children. I hope there is a rapid return to good health in your household. I agree, having someone to call to help will be invaluable. Is your mum within striking distance of London then?

No, she's in Wales, but that's closer than now! Agh, both boobs are aching too. This day completely sucks. And a man's coming round to give me a quote for shipping stuff back to the UK and I stink, have milk leaky out of my breats and haven't combed my hair for two days. I should probably get off mn....

i ahve just lost a massive post!!

probably for the best as too long!

Just saying I am here, trying to get used to the shakes, but we can't complain as we know people who cannot go back to their homes, or have lost house and/or jobs (lots factories collapsed) so we are the lucky ones, if a bit jittery.

talking about routines, I am being very laid back this time, I just cannot summon the energy to enforce one, even though I have found that now they will go to sleep around 7.30-830 without too much effort on my part . In my defence I do bedtime on my own every night, so needs must! Bath almost daily now that the weather is getting hot to cool the babies down and help them sleep better, but some days it can't be helped.
So I'm with red and minespint in that I think most babies eventually find their own whatever we do. (relieved I am not the only one to be so relaxed...)

Naps are normally taken in bouncy chairs (sometimes they fall asleep by themselves, emma sucks her thumb, ric his dummy, I find it fascinating that they can be already so different and bloody stubborn assertive, other times at the breast, other times, in the car/pram.

Thankfully dh does morning school run, so I can take it easy in the morning.

red really sorry to hear you are not well hope it goes quickly, this household would be near collapse if I got ill, but then dd1 would help loads, she's a star when she's not being a grumpy preteen

dream your amazon comment made me laugh! I am actually refraining from ordering any stuff for a while as am too embarassed to see him again!
Glad to hear you had a good day, hopefully things will keep improving, mine at 8 weeks were still crying a lot in the evenings and that was without reflux. HOld on in there, you are doing brilliantly and they will get better! in the meantime I found chocolate always helped!

katy you are definitely superwoman!

minesapint when were your twins born, mine are 18 weeks on wed so really close to yours, they were born on 8th feb.

hello also to bigboobs and lemele here's to lots of zzzz for everyone!!

red we are are three down and I'm just holding on until my parents arrive 11 tomorrow. Hope things improve at your end.

Oh god, this is ridiculous. can't someone sort it out so twin mums and their progeny don't get ill? I'm being serious. It's not fair.

(I'm currenlty clutching a hot nappy to my breasts and feel like my head will explode when I stand up.)

claire, glad you're ok. What a total mess for everyone round your way. I hope people get some help rebuilding their lives...I've been thinking a lot about the situ in Japan as stuff keeps getting washed up on our coastline, toys, motorbikes, it just doesn't bear thinking about...

Claire, the postman doesn't even knock here, he's realised I always leave my front door open largely as i forget so just puts parcels in himself and i also see a fair bit of the Amazon man too :)

No one is asleep here. Not one child. Argh!!!!!! As soon as the twins go to sleep in the evening that's me sorted routine wise :) . I can't be bothered trying yo get set daytime naps that will only restrict me, but i am struggling with a total lack of time for me. I haven't even managed to have a bath since the twins were born... except 5 days post section when DD had done a poo in the night and was sore by the morning so we tried to bath her to get her properly clean & she wouldn't get in so I got in to encourage her then realized 5 day old CS scar plus toddlers semi clean bum=bad plan. Nice

pigcon 3 out of 4 ill with the

Oops, accident pressing post.

With the vomiting I meant to say pig? Grim. Any illness is grim. Thank goodness for grandparents.

red, crossing my fingers your breasts improve. I was told to feed in a position so baby's bottom lip is nearest the blockage if you think there is a specific blocked duct too.

Speaking of grandparents, my poor dad is stuffed with his back. He went to a neuro center today urgently with ? cauda equina or compressed spinal cord. For scan ASAP :( . He normally helps me out a day a week too, I'll miss him, but above all hope it gets better.

Claire blooming terrifying. So glad you weren't directly affected.

By that i mean with losing hour/ job Claire, o know you felt it and were directly affected like that, scary and stressful.

dreaming your poor dad, imagine extremely painful.

red hope you get some rest tonight
claire thank you for the post good to hear you're ok.

Ha. I'm feeling negative today as there is not the slightest hint of improvement here. Bedtime routine for weeks. Neither baby asleep now, bar that 2 night wonder with DT1 it never has. Keep ending up with Ben in bed with me. feed feed feed....

DD is teething, 4 premolars coming through though she still has no canines. She's had some horrible nappies, isn't eating but also keeps being sick, just a bit, not huge chunders, and is off colour, so now I think she's got a bug of some sort too. Just what I need.

Moan moan moan. I am tired . Please go to sleep babies. And then stay asleep for more than an hour DT2!!!

Should be grateful I'm not ill. Hope you're feeling a bit better red and pigcon. Is your name from the flag red? And hope you both had a break of some description today, grandparent assisted or not... You're doing so well with no family around and three so young red, and you seem sane too. and getting better sleep out of your ebf babies than I am Astounding.

Dream, I am joining you in feeling negative. My boys want feeding every 2 hours in the night and are not settling after feeding - or one does, but never both. It takes almost an hour to feed both on my own (DH will help but I am a bit stubborn stupid ) so getting very little sleep. and like you DReam I end up putting one or both in bed with me - then they settle better and go a little longer between feeds.

I am having lots of moments of self doubt - what am I doing wrong? what can I do to change things? etc etc

They still sleep loads in the day - too much for 5 weeks old? I am doubting / worrying about everything at the mo - sleep deprivation is taking its toll and I am finding things very hard.

Do I need to 'do' something to improve the nights or will it just happen that they go longer between feeds at night? I can't remember what happened with DD and she only started sleeping through at 2 so I am obviously not very good at this

sorry for lack of personals, can you tell I am having a bad day?! It does get easier doesn't it? soon??!!

bigboobs, I'm exactly the same. It seems most twin mums say to wake the other twin to feed together but settling them back to sleep is so hit and miss for me I don't dare. Mine have also been having some long daytime sleeps and have slept lots in the day the last few days. I find it makes me worry about how bad the night will be from earlier in the day... I also keep wondering what I'm doing wrong. After dh finally getting them down after an ebm bottle last night at about 3am, DT2 was awake again after 35 minutes!! why aren't they getting any better?! I'm not even getting two hours out of mine sometimes?! I don't feed again after 35 minutes normally unless I'm desperate for them to settle and bring them in bed, feed and let them stay there...

Yes, anyone, do we need to do something to get them sleeping??

dream and bigboobs I wish I had some magic solution for you... But I did not do anything speciak to get them to sleep longer, it just happened. I never woke up the second twin, as they would not feed properly and still wake soon afterwards. Its not even the ff as only one of them has a few oz (never more than 5) and they still do 5/6 hrs. Ironically, often it's the twin who had ff that wakes first.

All I can say is that 5 weeks (fot bigboobs) is still early, I am pretty sure (ifmemory serves me right...) they were still feeding lots at that stage and sleeping more during the day. Sleeping longer at night happened so slowly thst it was impercettible until a few weeks later.

Sorry this is not much help, sendibg lots of positive thoughts your way!!