Under 1s twin post-natal group? Should we have one? Who's in?!

[PeelingmyselfofftheCeiling]

The antenatal group is nearly full, any graduates fancy joining forces to compare

Aw bless bigboobs, what a sweet big sister!

claire - poor DD2, hope she's feeling a bit better. Your day does sound full to say the least. But you do sound like you're coping, and as you said, at least you're getting sleep. Sometimes

My lump and redness never turned into full blown mastitis so I'm alright - I think because I knew so much about bf I managed to catch it before it really took hold. Honestly, that tip of filling a disposable nappy with hot water and using as a compress is genius. I've taken to using them for all me aches and pains.

bigboobs, I'm a bit at you about your DD. Mine does love the DT's, but she's still lashing out at them on occasion. She hadn't for a while and I started breathing a sigh of relief then this morning DT1 got a massive dent in his head from her front tooth and DT2 got kicked in the head whilst DH was changing him. No real damage done, but it's the intention. And it's not like DD isn't getting enough attention - we've been having plenty of one on one time and the DT's are relatively chilled so I'm able to play with her/read books etc etc. And THEN at nursery yesterday it turns out she hit some other kids which she has never done, I could just about deal with it when the violence was restricted to family members...I'm just a bit concerned they'll want her not to go as I really need those two mornings off a week. It's just weird as she's incredibly verbal so it's not like she can't tell us how she feels - she was just telling me yesterday about how 'when she was a little girl' she used to cry a lot...Oh FFS!!!!

beyoglu - the tiny baby stage lasts a blink of an eye, but feels like a century when you're going through it. Go out for walks - that was my saving grace with DD when she was grumpy. Also, making sure you set up good nighttime habits so at least you get time to chill in the evenings. HTH

red, my boys have only been home a week and I am being realistic that DD's relationship with them could change at any time and I know that there will be challengeds ahead when I am on my own with all three. So far she has lots of attention andf trips out with DH and my parents - when the attention moves away from us she may just think her new brothers are not quite so great after all!! At the moment she is great, but I do have to watch her all the time as she cuddles rather tightly and pats them rather roughly! It is hard for me to get the balance right between encouraging her to be involved and telling her to be 'gentle' - which she knows really means 'stop that now'!

Parents came here Tuesday but went again this morning. DH goes back to work next thurs which is when the real challenge will begin - and may call on my parents to come back!!

Beyoglu, these early days (nights) are hard aren't they? But red is right, they fly by and things DO get easier (I am telling myself that as well!). Are these your first?

Peeling, welly boots are the answer to everything (that and peppa pig)

Hi all, I've not been on here for a while and haven't had a chance to read the recents posts so hope you're all well.

We've been starting solids and I seem to be spending all my previously 'spare' time either pureeing, spoonfeeding, wiping up and laundry - my two were never sicky babies and used to be able to use same babygrows for two nights running - not any more, even with long sleeved bibs they're covered with porridge, carrots etc! Am still bf+formula topups in the daytime, so have very little free time atm. Thank god these are my first, no idea how all you supermums with older dcs cope! And how on earth will I ever be able to get out of the house by 8am when I have to go back to work in a few months!

Also DTS cut his first tooth, I cried as I can't imagine them growing up from little babies to big DCs but I guess its going to happen!

hello all thanks for the msgs for dd2, she is better now she has started antibs, and is back at school today, prob could have done with an extra day at home but it would have driven both of us mad!!

bigboobs your dd sounds just adorable and reminds of similar battles with dd1 wanting to wear her sandals on a cold rainy day... Now, we get a complete different set of problems, as it's hormones central in this house!

I do manage on my own (just about) and at times like this things almsot get out of control but I I guess I am uncharachteristically (sp?) like amachine. It is the only way to avert disaster! Feel like I always have to be one (or two or three) step (s) ahead so in case of anything unexpected comes up it doesn't mean all hell break loose. It is hard mentally as I am not a naturally organised person, but at the moment it is the way to go, I know it is not long term and asd the twins grow up I will be able to relax more and more. I do find it difficult to go to sleep sometimes though as I am so wired up!!

Unfortunately i find if I have mil or dm around I just get depressed and it is a lot worse, so coping on my own is the only way i can do this. (would be nice if dh came home a bit earlier, but it ain't gonna happen!)

ceeveebee I know what you mean about the tooth! I already miss the newborn stage (dts 3 months now), but not the 2 hourly feeds , and knowing these are definitely my LAST babies I wish I could slow time down so it doesn't go in a flash, instead I find days just fly by as with twins you are so busy, you hardly have the time to get up that it is time to go to bed again!

rednellie it must be hard seeing your dd hurt the babies, but as far as i know, entirely normal. I think you are doing all the right things, and all you can do is give it time, it must be really hard for a toddler to have to accept a new baby, let alone two! This too will pass (don't we say this about everything?? And then we get another set of problems!) And I am sure nursery must ahve seen this all before (I certainly ahve), so it would be a bit OTT to ask you not to send her anymore!

dream hope you have been getting some rest!

Sorry for the lack of posting... I'm feeling pretty rubbish atm from the continued complete sleep deprivation. Dh won't stop banging on about ff for top ups. The boys are feeding constantly and if they're not feeding they're screaming. I'm hoping its just a growth spurt. I'm not even managing to express enough for dh to do a feed for both, I only get 1-2 oz usually and can't get more than 5-6 total in the day. My greedy one will drink 5oz by himself! :( ah well. This too shall pass... But I'm not sure it will without me giving in and giving a ff top up or losing the plot entirely.

Claire your day sounds frenetic. Glad DD2 is better, adding illness onto your normal level of busyness must be so hard...

rednellie very normal behaviour for your DD. I also think nursery will be well used to it. It's so hard when you're in the thick of it.

Got to go, I'm going mad myself with the screaming here...

Thanks everyone for the support. Sorry, was having an irrational five mins.

dream, don't give up hope, you're doing so well. The boys bringing things up constantly must be so so hard. BUT probably the reason you're not getting much from expressing is that a) the boys are being very efficient at getting it all themselves , related to this is b) you're not getting much space between feeds therefore not much to express and finally c) you're tired which will mean your body wont express much as it's saving it all for the boys feeds.

I think what you need to do is get your daytime helpers to take the babies off you immediately you finish feeding and take them out/away wherever they will be out of ear shot of you then you must sleep. For 20 mins, an hour, however long it is just so you start catching up on sleep. If the babies are fed there is no reason why someone else can't take them off for a bit. Try and have that everyday and hopefully your reserves will start coming back. It's really important. Doing that would be much more helpful than your DH suggesting a top up all the time.

Anyway, I'm here cheering you on!

Ah, ceveebee, I know what you mean. I look at DD and can't believe how fast the last two years have gone and according to my DH, ahem, these are our last children so I'm trying to enjoy every minute.

Hi guys, been trying to reply to this for about a week...

Big dreaming, and ditto everything red said regarding bf/expressing/sleep.

We're doing ok here; the twins have settled into a 3 hourly routine which is more frequent than I'd like but at least it is mostly a routine. Nights, however, seem to be getting worse - for a while the twins were feeding 9/10pm then any time between 2-4am and then going til 8am or later which was superb! Anyway now they're doing more like 8/9pm then 2/3am then 5am then 7am then 9am sometimes(yes, 7am and 9am do still count as potential night time hours!). This is NOT helpful on top of tiring days chasing around after an ever more active toddler...

Oh and why is it DHs just have a way with words sometimes?! I've been successful in going back to entirely bf, not even having to express anymore (yay!), and last night DH says, "maybe you should go back to expressing, they were a lot better!" "Better for YOU", I said to him! Doesn't sound too terrible a thing for him to say but after the pains of mastering breastfeeding it really got up my back...guys just don't know how hard these things are! Not to mention the fact that when expressing I was staying awake for up to 2 hours settling the twins after DH had gone to sleep... Oh, and the fact that I'm awake more than him when I'm feeding, coz he can sleep in between interruptions.

Oh yes, that's what else I was going to say - I've been getting achey boobs, they kind of take it in turns sometimes (i.e. it's been one hurting for one or two days then the other one has taken over), but one is often predominantly aching. Anyone know if this is the beginnings of possible issues? Or just coz of making so much milk? :/

Lemele - watch that. Sore boobs, especially if it centres on one area could be a plugged duct (which I just had) and if left untreated can turn into mastitis. Nothing to panic about, but maybe put a hot compress on before you feed and just keep feeding those little uns.

I think mums of multiples are more susceptible to plugged ducts as we produce so much milk that it can kind of get too much for the boobs to deal with. Apparently, often it's not even a plugged duct it's just that the excess milk pools in the tissue of the breast. Anyway, heat and keeping feeding should sort it. The only other thing to think about is thrush as sometimes you get an achey feeling in your breasts - have the twins got any whiteness in their mouths/bad nappy rash? If so maybe go to your pharmacist and see what they say. Here's a link to Kelly Mom which has a useful bit about plugged ducts.

My doula had plugged ducts almost every month for the first 4 months when she had her twins, and I've had a plugged duct and thrush since the boys were born (9 weeks ago) but we're all still feeding so they're not disasters!

Can't believe the boys are 9 weeks already, took them for their first set of shots the other day. Left DD with my DH and did it on our own with the help of the lovely nurses at the doctors. I'm pretty sure more nurses than were needed came out of the woodwork just so they could 'help' hold a baby!

Thanks red, that's very helpful :)

hello all. how is everyone doing? dream , I hope your radio silence means you are enjoying your boys and resting when you can. you really do sound like you are doing really well and coping amazingly. any improvements? how is dd with the boys?

twinnies, a night in a hotel sounds wonderful! we left it a year and half before we had a night away without dd - but determined not to leave it so long this time-as long as my parents are willing to have all 3!

lemele sounds like you have a good routine. How old are your twins?

things going well here. yes i am tired but I am determined to enjoy the baby days as I know I won't be having anymore. dd is still being a little star and the boys are very content in the day and feeding every 4 hrs, more unsettled at night and feeding more often but still doing well. and if they need cuddles to sleep then fine with me (rod own back??!).

one of the boys has not had a poo for 3 days and I am sure he keeps straining and seems uncomfy and not drinking as much as twin2. anything to worry about? health visitor coming today so will ask her, although remember with dd that hv not always that helpful ;-)

both growing out of tiny baby clothes and moving in to newborn size, so something must be going right :-)

hello to red, bb3 and claire and all other mummies!

Hello! I've been reading but no time to post.

Sadly no improvements in sleep. I don't think DT2 is going to either unless I put him on his tummy and u just don't dare yet . They're also still both colicky, and have up to 4 hour scream-a-thons. I know everyone here has said you have to get used to more crying with twins but I find it really really hard, I can't tune it out. I'm sad as dh is just fed up and dying for them to be more settled and grown up, he's hating this stage. They are rarely awake and calm to be fair, they mostly scream or cry, can't be put down, sleep very badly. We get desperate and can be found walking them in the buggy at stupid hours... Today my mum is up helping and even she says she can't stand any more crying and we haven't even hit evening crying yet, argh!! I'm also finding tandem feeding much harder again with bad latches and from reading rednellies posts, probably blocked ducts, with a sore area and flu like symptoms. Ah well. I really must try and enjoy them more, as dh insists says they're our last babies. You've got the right attitude bigboobs! DD loves her little brothers, doesn't seem bothered that they are constantly feeding, and wants to kiss them all the time. Very sweet :)

Now rednellie (& anyone else with twins & a toddler) how do you get them all up and ready in the morning without a cacophony of howling?! DD is 20 months and the boys are 6 weeks on Wednesday, so three nappies, boys to feed, DD to dress and breakfast and all seems to be at the same time, just after dh has gone to work. I'm mostly trying to rope my parents in to help as its too many dependent children for one pair of hands!

Hope bb3 is enjoying her holiday.

I'm so impressed you're fully bf now lemele after all the hassle at the beginning. Highly irritating of your dh with that comment.

Anyway, got to go, going to buggy these boys for a few minutes peace!!

dream - we're only a couple of weeks on from you, but here's how mornings work (or don't ) so far:

6.30am DH gets up with DD and takes her to the loo, then downstairs with the laundry and starts making breakkie
7am I wake up with the boys, change them, feed them and take them downstairs
Me and DD eat breakkie together whilst DH empties dishwasher, gets something for us to eat out of freezer. DH goes to work.
8am The boys just about hold on till we finish breakfast and then I set up some sort of game/drawing/book with DD and I tandem feed the boys again. Normally have to change more nappies as they always seems to do mashoosive poos at that point and then i stick them in their bouncy chair things.
9.30am Boys will be screaming for more milk (they are massive morning cluster feeders). I feed them again and they normally then nap for about 3 hours. Phew.

But it only works if everyone's in a good mood, DD doesn't decide to do something daft like poo on the floor and if DH has enough time before work...

bigboobs - don't worry about not pooing. DT2 didn't poo for about 6 days when he was born and I started worrying then he did the most enormous poo I'd ever seen. DD wasn't much for exploding nappies, but these boys seem to be making it their specialty!

Hi dream I am so impressed at how you are coping without any sleep, I feel exhausted today and tbh I get a lot more than you do! (never enough in my book)

They twins are still very unsettled in the evening and I've just spent more than 3 hrs trying to settle them on my own! One would go to sleep only to qake 10-15 mins later just as the other was fallibg asleep, waking him/her up again! Its been an endless round of breastfeeda, bottle top ups (not much taken), dummies, lullabies, rocking, walking aargh! At one point I left dtg in living room while I was feeding her brorther in the bedroom, but he took ages and evetually she cried herself to sleep , i felt awful and had to fight back the tears. I would never do that with the one baby but with two I had no choice but leave one to cry. These are the things that really get me down about having twins, you just cant care for them the same as you would with one on its own. Oh the GUILT!

Cant help re morning routine as dh takes older gitls to school then ita just me and the twins who are normally quite easy in the morning (at least).

bigboobs I feel the same re trying to enjoy the babies, but sometimes, keeping away from feeling down is all I manage..for all the reasons above.

hi lemele how old are yours? Mine were still having somd nights with frequent feeds until week 10ish, they now normally have a longer sleep if about 5-6 hrs then feed and sleep again for 3-4 hrs. Their bedtime varies wildly between 8.30 and 10pm though.

Better go and get some sleep while I can

Claire, I know exactly what you mean about the GUILT, I had exactly the same tonight. I've started a bath every evening.to try and help mine work out night is starting wildly unsuccessfully . Tonight I did DT2 first (dh is upstairs doing DD, I'm doing the boys downstairs with a baby bath so she gets a pleasant bath without howling) and he cried so hard he was hardly catching his breath sounded genuinely distressed and by the time DT1 was dry and dressed he'd fallen asleep and I felt just awful, like you... :( He'd enjoyed his bath, just not getting dressed, then was calm expecting cuddles and milk probably but got stuck in a bounced chair and left while i did DT1. He didn't even sleep long either, maybe 15 minutes so not worth the stress of hearing him sob like that. hardly a relaxing bedtime routine either...

I felt a bit better today though that my mum really feels they're very unsettled and cry excessively rather than just me being tuned in to their crying too much. I know i might have to toughen up, but it doesn't come naturally to hear my baby cry without trying to comfort. Bit gutted to hear yours still aren't settling well Claire, I'm counting on this being miles better by 12 weeks to get through it! And what a shame. Are you still giving dtb infacol?

Your routine sounds great rednellie! So they sit calmly in their bouncy chairs? Think I'm a million miles off that still then, I might get 5 minutes in a chair from mine before the crying starts again. I also can't get mine doing the same routine so far, at all. Eek!

Yours must be about 6 weeks now lemele are they?? Impressed with their four hour stretches ever at night. And i agree, if you can sleep past 7, but they get you up, you can count it as a night feed!

bigboobs, DD was a veteran of the 10 day poo... And no nappy is a match for a 10 day poo!!! Are you bf? Bf babies are very, very rarely constipated, they can just have very good absorption from the bm and poo less (so they said when i mentioned the 10 days without a poo to hv). I'd be twitched by day 10 every time though, not to mention scared of leaving the house in case the explosion happened then!!! (Was anything from day 8 to day 19, I remember running into a library holding DD out like a talisman as soon as she'd done one but it was already up to her armpits by the time I got to the baby change!)

dream - they only sit calmly in their chairs for about 5 mins, but then we just take turns holding one, putting one in a sling etc etc. There just is a lot of crying...One thing that's worked for me with bathtime is I sit on the bed to change/massage them etc, so the other twin who isn't being dressed/washed gets to lie in my lap. That way, at least even if they're crying, I feel like I'm not leaving them to it. If that makes sense. But there is basically wall to wall crying from 6pm until they're in bed. Don't feel that you're the only one going through it! We're all in this together.

I feel relatively good today as I managed all day ON MY OWN and it wasn't a total train wreck and DD only attacked her brothers twice. She also did lots of lovely things with them and got very very very excited about them starting to smile. And at bedtime I had the two boys feeding, DD sitting on my legs and DH resting his head on the feeding pillow reading the bedtime story. It was In the Night Kitchen in honour of Maurice Sendak. Lovely moment.

How are the weening mums getting on? I want more stories of mushy carnage!

Well DTS is just loving his food! Its been 10 days and so far he's been having porridge with fruit for breakfast, he's had banana, apple, pear, mango and strawberry. I started giving him tea a few days later and he's had mashed potato, carrot, sweet potato, broccoli,spinach and sweet corn! I've been doing both mush and finger foods and he seems to like both. However dtd is having none of it, she clamps her mouth tightly shut and puts her head down, then cries until I bf her. She has had a couple of spoons of yoghurt, and I managed to get some sweet potato in which she gargled with for about 10 minutes then spat it out! So now I am just sitting her in the chair to watch her brother and hope she'll take an interest soon. She is much smaller than him, she's around 13lb at 6 months which is 2nd Centile whereas he is 50th. Did anyone else have a twin who wouldn't eat?

We've all got a cold and sore throat this week too, and I think there are more teeth on the way, so not been much fun. I've been told I can only have paracetamol and glycoril due to bf and it's really not working, I need a lemsip! Any tips for how to shift it?

Re bathtime, I bath them both together, I use bath chairs from mamas and papas link, they kick each other and they love it! I have two changing mats on the floor next to the bath and get them dressed in the bathroom before taking to nursery for bottle and bed. They used to always cry but I realised they were overtired and hungry, so I make sure they have a catnap about 5, and brought bath forward to 6pm (used to be 630), seems much better.

We have baby Bjorn bouncy chairs and they are my saviour, once they worked out how to bounce on their own probably at about 4 months, they will sit in them for up to an hour watching me do housework, cook etc (or sometimes the tv). I even take one of the chairs out with me sometimes, as I know DTS will be happy in there if they are both crying at once so I can hold DTD in my lap

It's not too bad a routine bigboobs, not very set in stone yet but I'm just glad of vaguely knowing what my day is going to be like!

And they're 7 weeks tomorrow, a week ahead of dreaming I think.

We've been getting the straining/pulling off the boob/not drinking hugely thing with both twins. I remember it with my first as well - but, helpfully, can't remember WHY he was like that I've just been making sure they're burped a lot because as others have said, constipation is v unlikely for bf babies.

dreaming yours do sound unusually frequent cryers, lets hope they get through this phase quickly. I'm lucky in that I grew up in a big family (one of 9 kids) so find it really easy to tune out any crying if I'm occupied elsewhere - in fact I do it without meaning to and I keep suddenly realising that a baby has been crying for several minutes and I've just not noticed!

Re getting up in the morning, sadly the answer is get up before your DH goes to work so you've got two pairs of hands. This is what we do on days the hubby works in the morn: my hubby gets DS1 up and gives him bfast, I get twins up (they've usually fed beforehand and are quiet/asleep - this is key to it working for us!), I bring DT1 downstairs and put in carrycot/give to DH if crying, then get dressed, then wake DT2 and change him and come downstairs. Usually by then DS1 has finished him bfast, which is the only thing that needs supervision. Then DH goes to work. Then if twins need another feed DS1 is happy playing with toys.

I agree with others that if you need to deal with one twin, having the other close by helps. Even if upset, they're usually calmer than if left totally, plus you can occasionally pat/comfort with a free hand.

That should be exactly a week ahead of dreaming I think. :)

That should be exactly a week ahead of dreaming I think. :)

Grr hate not being able to delete double posts

PIL here at the mo, really not helping me cope with tiredness/dd/twins. in fact I have pretty much stopped speaking to help Me keep stress under control! they have not even offered to make me a hot drink - not once! they are off tomorrow tho so not long to go now. why do I find sharing my home and family so hard?!

oh well, dh having the boys tomorrow while i have my hair done-so that will help!

had a bit of a low point last night and really felt things are going backwards. they are soooo content in the day and sleep a lot. Come the early evening until midnight /1am they are very unsettled, feed randomly and no one gets any sleep! not too bad after say 2am when they feed and sleep for about 4 hours, then another chunk of sleep after another feed. so not too bad i guess - they are only 2 weeks! but I feel like I am doing everything wrong when I am knackered at midnight.

I guess they are just a little nocturnal?

health visitor came yesterday and she was worried as twin1 is still mucousy and constipated. she is coming back on Thursday to check him :-(

I am mixed feeding. I am unable to get babes to latch on (was same with dd) so expressing for 4 feeds a day and formula for rest. so may well be constipated :-(

lemele, I can't imagine having anything resembling a routine by week 7! u am impressed that you and dream have proper bath times and bedtimes already. really not sure how I will manage that one as well as dds routine.

red, well done for having a good day going solo! dh is back to work on Thursday so my test will come! think that me and the boys on my own will be ok (may well be proved wrong!), but having dd in the mix will be a whole other matter!

So trying to take my own advise of enjoying the baby names bbut not always easy. And i feel like i am not giving either baby quality 1-1 time....

Oh bigboobs, I think all of us could have written that post you've just put up. IL's invading house - check
Twins not sleeping till middle of night - check
Worrying about older DCs and routine - check and check
Not giving anyone proper attention - big almighty check

I think it's just normal for us twin mums. And you're doing brilliantly. Routines come out of what babies do naturally so just keep in tune with them and things will settle down. I've half enforced/half followed what my DT's are doing and then tried to fit that in with DD. Tbh, she's the main driving force - I think when you've got an older DC you just have to keep to a vague routine just to keep sane.

lemele - might just be that they're not that hungry. Try leaving them for a bit and then putting them back on. It's totally normal bf behaviour. And don't fret about mucous/no poo situation - exactly the same with DT2. He's fine now.

ceeveebee - they sound like they're doing GREAT. And isn't it interesting how the two are approaching food differently, I should imagine their different sizes play a lot into it as babies do seem to wait until they're big enough to deal with solid food... I look back with fondness on the days when i could get DD to eat any type of vegetable...nowadays I'm lucky if she even looks at a carrot, hence my evil 'special soup' approach where I make a smoothy with peanut butter, milk, bananas, berries and SPINACH. Mwah haha ha ha

And I noticed yesterday the boys cried less or I was more able to quiet them - I think not having my MIL around or anyone else interferring is making me calmer and hence them. Just a thought...

On her last day here she actually referred to my breasts as 'meat' and said very loudly in public 'ooh, do you want to sucky your mummys nip nips'. FFS

Just marking my place, I've been a bit shattered and fully occupied in finding a nanny for my return to work in just over a month. I have hopefully found one and am now doing the contract. I am slightly torn between the fact I'll miss certain small parts of the day when I return but not the cleaning, sweeping, sorting laundry, dealing with crying babies, pooy nappies which have gone up the back and down the legs, tantrums from 5 year old, never getting anywhere by myself or guaranteeing a hot cup of tea can be drunk while hot. Work is rather more relaxing.

ceeveebee - I have one keen solid eater (the bigger one who hates milk) and one less keen. He does have his days though and they both love strawberries.

For all people with twins under 3 months you're doing amazingly well and I'm so glad that phase passes. Dummies are not to be overlooked although dt2 never liked them. Also putting windy babies on their tummies post feed can also help, although they are then likely to fall asleep there (don't tell hv emoticon).