First Pregnancy Missed Miscarriage

[sadtoday21]

Hi ladies! Our last thread was automatically closed because we reached the 1,000 post limit. I was hoping we would be able to start a new thread called First Pregnancy Post-MMC, but unfortunately we are not quite there yet. I know we will be someday soon! In the meantime, I hope you will all join me on here as we continue on this journey together. You have all been an invaluable source of inspiration, support, and kindness for me and I want to thank you for making me feel less alone in this.

About me, for any newcomers: First MMC in February at 12 weeks (baby passed at nine), D&C the next day, found out five weeks later that it was a partial molar pregnancy and currently undergoing follow-up with CX. Second early mc in April. Now impatiently waiting to be cleared from CX before ttc again.

Meant to say @sadtoday21 your chart is looking good. Don't worry too much about the fluctuations and see how it goes. Hope you're having a lovely holiday! Xx

@bananamonkey have a lovely time on the hen do! It'll be lovely for you to see your friends! Xx

@LMLP91 glad you're feeling better in yourself. I hope the headaches feel better soon. I'm not sure about folic acid unfortunately. Xx

Thinking of you too @AnnaMC214 and @3204ECL

I just wanted to reiterate how much I love this group and hope you're all having a happy Easter weekend! Xx

@sadtoday21 I have tried to cut down on chemicals after reading scare stories about endocrine disruptors (more for ttc than when pregnant) but find it unreasonably hard. Have tried every natural deodorant I've ever come across and found none particularly effective. Now do a pointless mix where I use natural products where I have found ones I like but chemical ones where I haven't found natural substitutes. I wish there was more clarity on what is OK and what isn't but I guess the thing is that most people conceive and have healthy babies without even thinking about chemicals in cosmetics.

@catconfusion thanks for the info on ovusense. I haven't been on the fb group... I must have a look. I am not that great with interpreting the charts. But I found it brilliant for telling me when to expect my period which I've never had before. I find it really reassuring that you got pregnant naturally twice, even if it hasn't worked out for you yet. It just goes to show how much of a mystery it all is. I never had any advice on how to try to regulate my cycles and I wonder now if we rushed into ivf without giving ourselves enough of a chance naturally. I'd love to try to work out why my cycles are so crazy and try to sort it out but I feel so stressed about time going by and getting older, even though I know that doesn't help either...

@annaMC214 I also felt so bitter after my mmc as I was trying to everything right and walk 30 mins a day and eat healthily and meditate and all that, and for two weeks it was all for nothing. I swing between thinking I should live this perfect life to increase my chances and thinking that others manage to have babies without doing anything. There was a heavily pregnant woman smoking outside the maternity hospital when I went in for my d&c yesterday... You can imagine how much I wanted to scream at her about the injustice of it.

It's so hard to take. I really have found it next to impossible to talk to my sister at all. They're not pleasant emotions but I feel the way I feel and I think you're all right that it's understandable under the circumstances. I guess the thing is that she doesn't understand and probably thinks I'm being so unreasonable as it's not her fault. I can't worry about that at the moment though.

Sorry, last post. I am using the Mumsnet Talk app and finding it useless!! Have to scroll through every single post to get to the most recent posts every time and it doesn't notify me when there is a new post. Am I missing something or is that app just rubbish?

Happy Easter and long weekend everyone! xx

I visited my sil and 1 year old niece today which was both lovely and really hard.

@NBparis I think it's completely right to let yourself feel those emotions right now. Things will naturally get easier with your sister over time. I so know what you mean about the injustice of it all. How is it that some people can accidentally do so easily something that we're all struggling to do on purpose?! Especially when I think how loving and deserving all the ladies on here are.

@LMLP91 I'm glad you're generally feeling better and brighter. I'm with you on the headaches. I often get hormone related headaches but I've had one every day for about a week now! If you're tired of pills I find those 4head stick things quite good.

@Catconfusion I'm sorry you're still not much closer to an answer with this cycle. If it does turn out to be af at least you can start afresh and hopefully put this wtf cycle behind you. I take the Seven Seas preconception vitamins as they are a bit milder than most and tiny. They're also pretty affordable, especially on 3 for 2. We actually got our bfp on the first month I took them and I credit them for having much more ewcm that cycle.

@NBparis I've never downloaded the app because the reviews are so terrible so I don't think it's just you! xx

@NBparis I'd be happy to help with the charts when you're ready of course. With regards to the IVF you did what felt right at the time and every chance it could have worked out. My friends partner is an embryologist and she said even with IVF conception is like rolling a dice. There's just so much that's out of our hands.

I'm presuming you've had an ultrasound and confirmed normal ovaries since you had IVF? Irregular cycles can be baffling but there must be a reason. Did you try clomid to try and conceive before the IVF? I'm wondering if I might need that to get a strong ovulation. A supplement you might want to look at is Inositol. It's good for improving egg quality and shortening cycles.

I hope the sunny weather helps during these early days but you seem really strong and I know you'll get there! Xx

@Catconfusion I take gummy prenatals - sometimes the cheaper ones that I got from the states (vitafusion gummy prenatals with omega) and sometimes the smarty pants prenatals with omega. I took pregnacare liquid once (can you tell I hate large pills?) and that had iron in it. Overall I like smarty pants best in terms of nutrition profile, but they are a bit pricey. I take those with EPO currently.

I'm sorry your cycle is still messed up and the spotting is strange too. It's hard to say what is going on, but I hope you get AF soon or a temp rise so that you can be out of the limbo period. I just realised that my cycles are likely 36 days long too, also really long, no? Is that a bad sign? It's definitely frustrating when ttc because it means a lot of waiting around (like now). As you said though, will try to not stress out too much about the chart because O could still happen and I am having EWCM now. I just have to be more patient.

@NBparis I know what you mean about conflicting information about chemicals. I researched it a lot and decided to stop everything - no nail salons, no hair salons, no non-organic/natural beauty products. I was even making my own toothpaste and stopped using deodorant! I'm not sure if I will do the same next time around, as I don't really like the natural products as much either. I might have been too extreme about this - but am still thinking it over. I would like to go back to hair dye and normal cosmetics, but don't want to start now if it might harm a future pregnancy. Would welcome any other thoughts or advice on these issues!

Thanks @AnnaMC214 I think sometimes less is more with supplements. I'm really wondering if something in the fertility plus has contributed to my issues at the moment. I actually ran out of them so might just go back to the ones I was on as we conceived on them.

I can imagine today was hard for you. It's so bitter sweet seeing loved ones with their kids. I've found if it's a close friend who I really love I can handle it. If it's an acquaintance it's tougher as they're less likely to offer support back. I'm sure these things will get easier with time and when we're all pregnant again! Xx

@catconfusion It's all a bit confusing. My hormone profile doesn't say pcos and scans have not usually shown cysts so I think it's conclusive that I don't have pcos, although I was initially diagnosed with it as I think an initial scan did show some cysts. I took clomid for two cycles but first dosage was too low to have any effect and when they gave me a slightly higher dose, it made me ovulate several follicles so they said it wasn't going to work for me. The consultant at the time said my reaction to clomid showed possible hypothalamic amenhorea so I spent ages freaking about that before being told it was very unlikely (I couldn't be accused of being an elite sportsperson or underweight!). I find it really frustrating that both the NHS and the private clinic just don't seem to care what the reason is as for their purposes ivf overcomes the lack of ovulation and that's the problem solved but I'd still love to find the reason, fix the problem and get pregnant naturally. I am considering seeing a herbalist now as I have to take a break while waiting for cytogenetics and a referally to the recurrent loss clinic. I just feel the need to do something holistic, you know? After having such problems conceiving and now two mc, I just feel that we need to look at all of me instead of trying to find fixes for bits. Although again, plenty of people get pregnant through ivf and don't have mcs so maybe I'm just pinning my hopes on something new...

@sadtoday21 it's really tough, isn't it? When you read up on it, it's hard to deny that cosmetics use a lot of stuff that seems really bad or questionable at best but official advice doesn't seem to acknowledge that. I really got freaked about aluminium in deodorant, hence my never ending quest for natural products, but I do find it really really hard to stay away from products I love when I can't find natural alternatives (or they're too expensive). I don't dye my hair anymore or use nail varnish and I use natural moisturisers and shampoos. I stay away from commercial home cleaning products too and would refuse to paint or do anything DIY. I try to eat organic too whenever possible and avoid bpa where possible. It's so hard though and I do feel like I'm losing bits of myself along the way. I used to love doing my nails and found it really therapeutic but that's all over now. It's similar with this masters I'm doing. I did love it but haven't been able to engage with it at all in the past three weeks and now it looks like I'll have to drop out. Which isn't a massive deal as I have other priorities at the moment but it just makes me sad to lose a part of me to ttc.

@annamc214 I know exactly what you mean about it being lovely but also hard. It brings out such mixed emotions in me and really depends on my own mood. Sometimes it's OK and I can be happy for others and recognise that their success doesn't take away from my chances of happiness and enjoy their babies, but other days I am not half as reasonable and I just resent them. I find I am very sensitive too and I worry people will hurt me by accident. Like my sister the other day 'oh sometimes she just needs her mum' when my niece was crying on me. It felt like a knife through me but she was oblivious.
Also, yes the app is rubbish. Back on the website!

Thanks @sadtoday21 I'll look into them. Yes it's annoying and no more spotting this afternoon so not sure if I imagined it. I don't usually spot before periods anyway so might be nothing. I'm definitely not ovulating , LH tests have been weak. We're still dtd every other day. We'll get one more in on Sunday morning before DHs SA if AF not here. I've never temped and had an anovulatory cycle before so I don't know what happens with AF. I hope it's not too much waiting though. Might see if the doctor can give me something to bring it on if it's too much longer.

With regards to what I did during pregnancy. I tried natural deodorants and found they weren't very good but stuck it out. I was so ill I didn't need makeup as I pretty much only went to doctors appointments. I probably would have left off foundation though. I went grey at 16 so hair dye was a must. I used Naturtint from Holland and Barrett which was ok and free of a lot of nasties. I did have coffee until the morning sickness kicked in at 5/6 weeks and then I couldn't even stomach hot drinks.

My friend who had 3 miscarriages a while back but is pregnant with her second baby in less than a year haven't changed much at all. Obviously she avoids alcohol, the meats and cheeses etc but she has her two cups of coffee, she eats lots of ice cream, she dyes her hair, she's massively into nails and makeup too. Her born baby and baby in her tummy are very healthy. I do think a healthy embryo is pretty hardy and it'd be tough to do much to affect it. That aside I'd probably still worry and be careful! Xx

@NBparis it's interesting there were some cysts on one scan. They can come and go. My last scan was clear too and my bloods normal. The fact clomid didn't work for you suggests they might be right about not being pcos as it seems to generally work quite well with pcos. There are however lots of different types of pcos. I was told I likely don't have the full syndrome as no other symptoms. As there is a family history and they've found cysts in the past I'm pretty sure I have it mildly but enough to cause the cycle disturbance.

Hopefully the recurrent miscarriage clinic will have some answers for you. They'll no doubt do more detailed tests. It's so difficult though as you probably know most losses are down to chromosomal abnormalities. Do you take coq10 as supposed to be very good at boosting egg quality. Good for your partner to take as well. I presume his samples have all been good? I really hope you get answers. My DH is having his sperm analysis this week. He's been on supplements for a couple of months now and no reason to suspect any problems but I guess you never know.

I'm so sorry you feel like you're losing yourself to ttc. Will you definitely have to drop out if you masters? It seems such a shame. Xx

@NBparis was also going to say inflammation in the body can delay ovulation. This means diet and environment can cause an inflammatory response. I think you're on the right track removing toxins from your home and avoiding bpa. Gluten, dairy and sugar are apparently very bad in longer cycles so I cut them out over the last few days. I definitely felt my hormones even out because of this.

Today I failed badly when my Dad brought round an Easter egg for me. You only live once though and there's always tomorrow. Xx

@catconfusion that's interesting about gluten, sugar, dairy. I did try giving all that up before but didn't get anywhere but I might try it again. There is no family history of pcos in my immediate family so not sure about my chances of having it but wish I had a clearer diagnosis to work with. I've been told I defo don't have it by my current clinic so it's hard to motivate myself to give up all the things that are reputed to exacerbate pcos.
My dh has had sperm analysis and it came back OK but we did do icsi in the last round to ensure fertilisation. He's going to do it again now to double-check. I took coq10 before my last ivf but will go back to it now either for natural trying or in case of another ivf soon. We said we'd do one more in the summer and then stop putting ourselves through this but it's hard to stop too...
I don't know about the masters. I want to keep it for my own non-ttc identity but also don't want to put pressure on myself when things are hard enough. I have to accept that ttc is a time-sensitive thing and it has to take priority. My job is on a fixed term contract and I think I'm going to have to risk not being renewed cause I'll have to be open about all the appointments and so on that will be upcoming now. Trying to hide it all so far has been stressful so I might as well just accept the risks and be open about it as I had to tell them about the mc. It sucks so badly but it's just one downside of being a woman. My dh obviously doesn't have to deal with any of this.

I'm sorry that you are having such a crazy cycle. I know what a headwreck that is. How long has it been now? I have previously taken Duphaston to induce a period before ivf and it has worked although I have no idea what that would do for your natural cycles if you took it. I hope af comes soon for you either way so you can start a new cycle and start afresh.

@Catconfusion I didn't know that inflammation delays O, that is very interesting. I always feel that I have too much inflammation in my body due to chronic hives. I haven't cut out dairy or gluten - I'm vegetarian so pretty much live on dairy - but I have tried to follow an anti-histamine diet to reduce inflammation. I also try to avoid processed foods and plastics.

@NBparis I know what you mean, it's so hard to have a really clean lifestyle when ttc! I also stopped doing nails completely, which I used to enjoy. That doesn't bother me so much, but I do like a nice hair dresser visit! I also switched my foundation to a natural one, but definitely prefer the old one. Also changed lipsticks and shampoos and soaps to all natural. As @Catconfusion said, I doubt these things make a big difference, but I'll still probably be pretty careful the next time around!

Do you feel you have to give up on your master's? It seems like such a shame. I'm in the midst of my DPhil now too and I know it's really hard to focus on school and writing during this whole mmc process. I hope you can figure it out! xxx

@sadtoday21 I think like you that it doesn't make much of a difference to do this natural stuff but it is something that gives a sense of control, I suppose.
I hope you are doing OK with your studies. I was really into it and enjoying it for the whole year and it gave me a focus, but I haven't been able to open my laptop since we found out about this mc. I want to and I have tried to but I just can't seem to snap out of it. I've explained to my supervisor what's going on and I hope theyll give me time to finish my work when I feel able but if they don't I'll just have to let it go.

Good morning everyone, so I don't think it was spotting and I have another rise. We were too tired last night but dtd this morning. I bet O' happens on Tuesday the day of the SA. I can't wait for something to change. I had an upward trend start

@sadtoday21 I think inflammation mainly causes ovulation problem for ladies with pcos. It might be worth ruling it out as I know some ladies have regular cycles but still have it. Xx

@NBparis it sounds like definitely not pcos and giving up those things associated with it is so hard. I think as long as your diet is healthy it's ok.

It's so hard being a woman and reaching the time to have a baby. The process has such an impact on work. Could you pick your masters up in the future? I was running my own business before I conceived but I've put it on hold until our baby is here. Like you my concentration was just not there after my surgery which is completely normal but frustrating. I too wanted a non ttc identity but running a business was too much. I'm now looking at more flexible options so I can help DH out with bills. It's such a shame we feel we have to hide ttc through fear of losing a job. I guess it's hard to find a supportive employer.

I'm on day 33 and still no O. Temp is up again so I'm hoping this is it. What's the latest day you've had O' on? Mine is 34 since I've been temping but probably later when I was younger as cycles were worse. I wish I had Ovusense then! Xx

@Catconfusion your chart looks great! Finally a clear temp rise!! So happy for you and agree that O is likely around the corner, if not happened already. No changes for me, just the same temp as yesterday. I'm frustrated, even though we aren't ttc this cycle, just because I always feel anxious about knowing that everything is working properly and I really want to start trying next cycle. Hoping for a large temp rise tomorrow. Are long cycles a sign of pcos or can also be just a normal thing?

@NBparis I definitely think you should talk to your supervisor, they are usually really understanding about these types of things and will let you take some time off. My supervisor offered this to me and I was tempted, particularly as my writing isn't going so well lately, but at the end of the day I am bit too type A to do it. I agree with @Catconfusion though, it's really hard being a women and trying to have it all - career and family. I really admire women who run there own businesses! I imagine it's also hard for you because it sounds like you are working and going to school, like me, while also feeling the trauma of mmc and the pressure of ttc. I feel so overwhelmed and stressed by all these things sometimes, it can really be too much. I don't really have any good advice on how to manage but I do feel it's important to keep something for yourself in life outside of ttc and also important to give yourself a break sometimes when you need it. Thinking of you xxx.

@catconfusion since I've had the ovusense, the latest has been day 38 I think. It is absolutely torturous waiting so I really feel your pain. Especially when you are trying to DTD regularly. I really hope you ovulate soon even if it is when your dh has his sa so that you can start afresh. I will have to start the ovusense again, maybe in a week or two. It hasn't helped me get pregnant but I really appreciate having more of a clue what's going on. Before ovusense, I used to torture myself taking pregnancy tests every day after day 35 thinking maybe it was a late period when I usually hadn't even ovulated!!

If I manage to finish the two assignments left in this semester I can take a break from the masters for a year and pick it up later so I hope I can find the focus to do that. I completely understand why you'd put your business on hold during ttc. It just feels like the time for this is limited whereas we can always pick up our careers later (hopefully). I'm a teacher but it's hard to get a permanent job here so I'm just going to opt out and resign myself to doing supply until we work this out.
Hope you're having a relaxing weekend despite the never-ending cycle. Xx

@sadtoday21 hmm, I really hope so but I had three rises like this before and it didn't come to anything. A lady on my Ovusense group ovulated on day 49 and fell pregnant so it's still possible. We'll see!

Ladies with pcos are more likely to have long and irregular cycles but not necessarily. Some just have the odd long one like me. Most will conceive naturally once they figure out how to track ovulation. In the more serious cases the condition caused something called insulin resistance. This leads to weight gain and lots of nasty symptoms. Luckily mine isn't that bad.

If anything it would be very mild if you had it as you ovulate regularly. It's worth ruling it out for sure. You've mentioned skin issues which can be a symptom. Don't worry about it though as it's unlikely to prevent pregnancy even if you did have it.

Have you ever had long cycles I.e. over 35 days long? Xx

Thanks @NBparis Did you notice a pattern of your temp rising and falling like it was nearly happening? The anticipation is killing us.

I agree I really think Ovusense is great for understanding what's going on. Sometimes it's hard to see but I'd rather know than wonder about it. It's certainly worth doing soon for you to see how your body is getting on. You might have seen on the thread but three of us on here got pregnant again straight after the surgery but had a chemical pregnancy. We were told ok to try straight away but a different doctor after the fact told me you're more fertile after a mmc but also more vulnerable to losing it. Some ladies however are lucky straight away so if you're willing to take the risk you never know. What I would say though is having two losses in a row has messed my cycle up. I think the increased fertility does last for six months though.

What age group do you teach? I was a primary school teacher for 12 years. I'm now a freelance writer. I didn't go for my masters though as wasn't as common back when I trained. I often wonder whether I'll fall back into it again. Good you can take a break. I've always liked the idea of supply. I never did it but still might be an option for me in the future.

Have a lovely weekend too! Xx

@catconfusion that's really interesting about the chemical pregnancy after d&c. Not sure what to do with that info. I'd love to be pregnant again right away but the emotional hit of another loss would be awful. I weirdly feel much more positive about getting pregnant naturally after joining this thread. I just feel like it's not a lost cause and if you guys have managed it, maybe I can do. Not sure how deluded that is but hope is hope!

I have been teaching for five years - switched from being a Web editor to a teacher in my early thirties. I absolutely love it but moved from London to Ireland two years ago and have found it so difficult to get a job here. Have been working in short term contracts in a support teacher role since coming back and I really really miss my job as a classroom teacher. I was hoping to get a proper contract next year but I doubt the school I'm in will give me one now that they know that I'm ttc, especially when I am competing for jobs with two men in the school. It's very frustrating but I'm trying not to dwell on it.
That's so interesting that you changed to writing. That can't have been an easy move to make but it sounds like a really interesting change and a flexible job must help with all this up and down. Although I'm sure being freelance has its own stresses too!

@NBparis it's such a difficult call to make. We were reassured by the hospital and the GP to just try again straight away. Unfortunately my second loss was a suspected ectopic. Luckily it wasn't in the end but the doctor at the hospital when I got it checked out said chemicals are common after a procedure as the lining is affected by it. It's so difficult to know. All I can say is in my case I feel it set us back and I wish I'd waited. My mental health really took a hit and my hormones went haywire, far worse than after my first loss. We've talked on here quite a lot about the potentially bigger impact of a chemical on hormones than a missed miscarriage. It's maybe because the hormones spike and then drop with a chemical. A missed miscarriage is an established pregnancy so the hormones probably decline more gradually. I'm not a doctor but it makes sense.

It's such a shame it's hard to get a job over there. You'd have so much more security with a permanent contract during IVF and maternity. It's always difficult competing against men in teaching. Hard to believe in this day an age as it comes across as discriminatory. Saying that if the school is all female it makes sense. It's a shame they can't offer you a job and support you through this process though.

One of the reasons I left teaching was to work more flexible hours. I'd also suffered a slipped disc through bending and sitting on small chairs. I'd definitely had enough after 12 years too. It's great you really enjoy it and I hope you get a permanent position soon. The profession needs committed people. Xx