Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 28 - Tests, Treatments, Trying again, Trying to stay sane and most of all TREMENDOUS support!

[Kazz2112]

Tea, hugs, a wealth of collective knowledge and lots of hand holding as we try again. This thread moves like lightning so hold on to your hats!

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/miscarriage/2416801-Recurrent-Miscarriage-Support-Thread-27-Tests-Treatments-and-Trying-Again?

Just about caught up on the thread. Sorry for the newcomers needing to be here, but sounds like there has been lots of good scans and one new BFP, congrats to all concerned.

Brummie hope you got on ok at Worcester today. What time were you there? I had an appointment with Mr Watts today there too. Wasn't a great mixture in clover suite, there were quite a few there because they can't get/stay pregnant, plus a woman pregnant with twins, plus a relatively newborn baby.

He said that he doesn't believe progesterone can cause a miscarriage and that he recommends I use it again for next BFP, plus the clexane because of the positive lupus anticoagulant test. He has also prescribed clomid which he said should reduce my cycle length, and might improve egg quality. He said if we want to ttc this month then we can, but can't take clomid until day 2 of next AF or MC. Has given me enough for 2 cycles and said can only have it for a max of 6 cycles. He said there is nothing else he can suggest apart from going to Coventry, but whilst clearly in support of the work they do, he said he felt it would be unlikely I would have high NK cells as I have already had 2 children. So just keep trying and hope that one sticks. Just struggling with positivity after losing the last 6.

Sorry Mrsb...am so crap at remembering who said what on here, and just waded through about 10 pages and brain frazzled...

Loopy, I think a relatively high proportion of ladies with high NK cells have had children previously. Eg Baking. (My consultant said the same thing.)

adams welcome, sorry for your losses x

Patience, so sorry to hear that. And Adamsmummy, sorry you find yourself here.

MrsB, tests after my 4th miscarriage came back as 'normal boy'. No idea what the others were but that was my theory out of the window that I couldn't carry girls. I couldn't understand why it would be normal if Coventry theory was that I'd implanted an imperfect egg. But think it was Baking who said the standard genetic tests are fairly basic. Also felt like I didn't know what to feel. Apart from pretty hopeless.

Barking, the quote I was looking for was around courage - it doesn't mean the absence of fear, it means carrying on in spite of fear. And sprung to mind when you questioned why you went through FET with DH away.

Brummie/s, hope scans and cervix measurements went well today!

Right,....please excuse me if you guys think I'm being crude in posting this pic, but I have google searched, and there doesn't seem to be many pictures of implantation bleeding, and I think it would be useful to be able to relate to some!

Had this yesterday evening, nothing all day, now again this evening....could be just AF on way for all I know (probably is)
But thought id post anyhoos...11dpo today, bfn still, cramping a lot, very hot and headachy all of a sudden....
Either I'm pregnant and am having strong implantation, or this I just the start of what will be a very painful wtf cycle period....
Its orange like colored, with streaks of bright red, and has blobs of snot green tacky cm!

Evening all. A bit of a late response.

So cervix was 4cm which for 14 weeks is good, saw little one but very briefly. However have got 3 more cervix scans over the next few weeks to measure it and see what happens.

Loopy I was in the Clover Suite today - I saw Mr Watts was on. I was getting my bloods done about 4.15 and as now seeing Mr Hughes.

Really hoping the clomid works, but if it's any help ( and I know it's probably not) Mr Watts told me the exact same thing, that I do just need to keep trying until one sticks. But it made me feel pretty hopeless so I don't blame you for feeling down.

Patience and Adamsmummy big hugs to you both

I must have seen you today Brummie, I was there then, as they were running late for my appt! Now wondering who you were lol!

Patience so so sorry to hear of your loss, that very hard but please don't worry on age, you still have time. Big hug to you and hope you can now get some tests sorted. I am seeing Dr Shehata in few weeks. I know it's not what you want to think of right now but get tests done on this MMC it might hopefully give you some answers as I had with my third last month.

Mrsb so sorry, that's heartbreaking to hear, no wonder you broke down at work and thank god they're understanding. It's brought it all back again and left you wondering why? Def contact GP for bloods/referral.

Welcome Adamsmummy so sorry to hear your story, just shows it can happen to young women as well as older. I hope your DH will come round to Ttc again with you

Paws oh I'm not sure?? I've not had implantation bleed so I don't know. Pg symptoms are so similar to af symptoms it's just a waiting game for now

Brummie. yay for good scan!!

Welcome adams, so sorry for your losses.

Hope your treatment works loopy. X

Glad scan was ok brummie and good they're monitoring it.

I have another scan this morning at epu, eeekk. Feeling more positive now and sort of looking forward to it but think there'll always be that bit if fear there. x

Good luck for your scan today Bumble.

How are you today MrsB?

Sasha have you been to Coventry too?

Got massive back to work blues today after nice spa day yesterday boo

loopie do you think Coventry is your next stop?

brummie excellent scan news :)

biscuits it's such a shit place to be in, as you kind of want something to be wrong, so you can fix it, but you also want everything to be ok.

Not sure how I'm going to manage at work today, little sleep and my head is not in it at all. Luckily everyone witnessed my emotional breakdown, so they'll leave me in peace and quiet. Silver linings and all that.

Poor DH doesn't know what to do. I told him just be there for me. I'll talk about it when I'm ready.

Good luck.today bumble

emerald we still good for October?

I have some annual leave next week thank goodness, had forgotten I'm working this weekend. Not the best timing

Brummie glad to hear your scan went well. Xxx

Loopy my friend has 2 happy healthy little girls, then lost her little boy at 20weeks and her 3rd little girl at 16 weeks all because of NK cells. Just because you have children doesn't mean you can't develop them so please push for the testing. That is my next plan of action. Unfortunately I have to stick with nhs treatment as I just don't have the money to go private. Would anybody mind answering some questions for me? I have some theories about my miscarriages but Drs are too worried about a law suite to give me a straight answer(with regards to second question)

Firstly, I have a long cycle, 5 weeks average. Could this make my eggs of poor quality? I start to spot at 4 weeks but bleed properly at 5 weeks. It's been this way since my son, although for a time they were all over the place thanks to my thyroid.

Secondly, with my miscarriage in May 2014 and the latest one I had internal scans. Both times saw a sac and foetus, last one having a heartbeat. The May mc I lost the baby 3 days later, despite the fact my hcg was rising. This one I lost it just 10 hours later and lost the entire placenta as a whole. I know it could just be coincidental but could the scan have opened my cervix or something? I just find it too strange that the baby had a heartbeat at 10.30am then at 8.30pm I had lost it

Thanks in advance x

toomanysparkles I can't answer your second question I'm afraid, I have no idea of the chances of that. As for your first question, I think the important bit of timing is between ovulation and AF arriving, if you do some googling about the luteal phase this should give you some info.

The spotting is back with me, had a meltdown yesterday, stress and pressure is getting to me. Scan on Thursday although going to see if I can get one any earlier. Eugh.

patience so sorry to hear your news. That's heartbreaking. Echo what others have said about age. 38 is no age really, plenty plenty of women on here and everywhere in fact to prove it's perfectly feasible to carry healthy babies into your 40s. I know what you mean when you're trying for your first though - I turned 38 at the weekend and whilst I know I still have time, if I wanted a big family I might struggle. Luckily I think I only want one!

toomany I wouldn't be concerned about 5 week cycles which are perfectly normal. It's also normal for cycles to change post pregnancy/mc. I think the spotting would only be an issue if it indicated low progesterone. Do you track ovulation? As I understand it, Ideally time between ovulation and af should beat least 12 days (so they say).
I'm positive the scans won't have had anything to do with your losses, just horrible coincidence.

I'm sorry you've started spotting again flen what a worry.

Thanks so much for all the kind words everyone.

Woke up this morning to the bleak reality of it all.

DP is my shining light. He was brilliant the last two times and continues to be this time.

Just have to get d&c done then can hopefully start to move forward :(

Am going to catch up on the last few days posts now.

mrsb so sorry you had a hard day yesterday. Knowing reasons, either what you want to hear or not, is a lot to get your head round. Glad you have a supportive boss and hope today goes ok.

bumble good luck with your scan. So lovely that you're at a point where you're excited not worried.

brummie yah for good cervix news and how weird that might have been practically sat next to loopy without realising!

paws can't help I'm afraid as never had implantation bleed. I'd just wait it out and see if af turns up. I had exactly the same cramping last month as this month with different outcomes.

toomany I've heard like monten said that its the luteal phase that's important to be long enough for egg to implant. I think 10/12 days. You could try acupuncture maybe if you're worried, it got my cycles to an even 27 days every month.

flen Urgh on the spotting. I wish it would do one for you. Hope you get an earlier scan.

Waves to everyone else x

Toomanysparkles I'm so sorry to hear of your losses, how difficult for you.
I understand why you are asking the question about the scans. My first miscarriage happened hours after a TV scan at 6.5 weeks on the night before Xmas Eve 2013. The scan was performed by a trainee sonographer and a qualified sonographer. I had already had a TV scan at just under 5 weeks, no pain at all caused during that scan.
But during this second scan, when the qualified sonograher took over she was literally digging around with the probe, for a good 10 mins, it was very uncomfortable, so much so, that another nurse in the room at the time, walked over to me and asked if I was ok. Why there were so many people in the room at the time god knows!!! I walked out of EPU, went and had lunch in waitrose cafe with my DH and the mc started, pain was unbelievable, my body was burning from the inside, blotchy red face, pain all night, then spotted brown all day Xmas Eve with constant on/off pain. Xmas Day full on MC.
I called EPU on Xmas Eve and was told the TV scan shouldn't cause spotting immediately afterwards and should not be at all painful. Since then of course the first thing I pipe up at the sonographer every time I have a scan is I'm anxious about having it done, I almost have to switch my mind off, don't look at the scan monitor etc etc.
I cried and cried after that first miscarriage, blaming them for taking my baby away. The reason I went in there so early on in my pregnancy in the first place, was I had gone to the doctors notifying them of my first pregnancy, and mentioned I had experienced 2 hours of left and right ovary pain, pinging sensation the day before. The Dr wanted EPU to check me out and almost had to beg them to see me, which they did at the end of the week.
I too have read older posts on the internet with other women experiencing MC almost immediately after a TV scan. I have been told time and time again by sonographers and Dr's the baby is so high up in the cervix, that the TV scan probe doesn't go anywhere near the cervix opening so it's not possible to cause a miscarriage.
In my case I've never seen anything that resembles a baby, just a tiny sac once on the monitor during this scan, with no fatal pole. For you I know it's been a different situation and I totally, totally sympathise with you. xxxxxxxxx

Just wanted to let you all know, just after 10am on BBC2, Victoria Derbyshire programme, is talking about miscarriage, why it is still such a taboo, also why men in particular need/want to talk about it more etc etc.

You can email your experience of MC to
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: @VictoriaLIVE
FB: www.facebook.com/VictoriaDerbyshire
Text: 61124

Actually the MC article on Victoria Derbyshire, should be on at approx 10.20/30am...

Welcome newbies but sorry you find yourselves here.

bumble, good luck for the scan!

flen, sorry you are spotting again. I just wish it would stop for you

brummie, glad the scan was ok. I have also had loop diathermy so i will probably have to have mine checked too.

paws, implantation bleeding can be any colour, so could be, just have to wait and see! Frer are the best. Don't even bother with ic until you're about 12dpo

loopy, nk cells can vary up and down. It's the reason the profs haven't given this 'condition' a name, because it's an over reaction of the natural state that can come and go. It is absolutely not dependent on whether you've had children or not. Maybe it's worth thinking about, as your pattern is very similar to mine (and i have a child) and I have high nk. The prof also advocates just keeping going with the early ones, and eventually you'll find a good one. It's so hard to keep going though. I know they say 2 full cycles since mc before you can do coventry, but i went after 1 cycle after a chemical (so during the 2nd cycle) . I had long cycles anyway, so it was 2 clear months by the time i went (was a bit ambiguous whether it had to be 2 months or two cycles).

Someone else was talking about nk cells and normal embryos. Under the Coventry theory, the ill prepared uterus causes both non viable eggs to implant, but also causes issues with the implantation process for viable eggs, meaning the placenta doesn't form correctly and causes mc, normally slightly later ones after a hb has been seen and often around the time the placenta takes over, as it can't cope with the extra stress of the blood flow . So you might expect both normal and abnormal results from chromosome testing.

mrsb, i would be pushing for some testing if you can. I find it strange that the midwife had said it's just bad luck because the chromosomes were normal. Actually there is a correlation between more mcs and more normal embryos (ie the more mcs you have, the more likely they are to be chromosomally normal, as there is probably some other cause). I would have thought she'd have used the 'just bad luck' line to explain a chromosomal issue rather than a lack of one. By saying this i don't mean to scare you that something is wrong, it absolutely still could be just bad luck, but if you get a chance to rule out some of the common simple things then it may help you in trying again.

I would also advocate acupuncture for regulating cycles. Mine went from 32-38 days down to bang on 28 with acupuncture. I agree that the most important thing is the luteal phase being long enough, but a longer follicular phase is not ideal (though by no means a deal breaker)

patience, glad your dp had been there for you and hope the d&c goes smoothly xx

I'm sure I've missed some people. Waves to everyone else x

Welcome sparkles and sorry for your losses

Sorry you're spotting again flen, remember though everything was ok before when you were spotting. Hope it goes away soon though.

loopy I have DS and also high uNK cells so definitely worth getting them checked imo.

Scan went well. Next one 12wks dating one, eeek!!

Attempting a slightly better catch up.

Brummie, glad scan was ok, fingers crossed for an easy 5 months or so. Am hoping clomid does help me but starting to feel like nothing will ever work. One minute I'm thinking ooh, twins, but then Sasha said it can thin the lining. And Google says that a side affect of clomid is miscarriage, and it can in some people make falling pregnant very hard to do as it can also sometimes dry up cervical mucus. Seems like a lot of negatives to it. Wondering if anything else can help the lining? I've never been short of mucus when it counts. Would be annoyed if it makes matters worse but running out of options.

Re Coventry, am unsure. Have a wedding I must go to next July, and we are both big fans of giving children the best start and that children born in June/July/August don't have an easy time starting school just as they turn 4, so we are considering trying again this cycle as due to ovulate next week I think, then if that doesn't work out, stop ttc until December, which would mean we could go to Coventry, and by December we would have had the NK results back, and could give clomid a try in December/January knowing that we have done everything else we could possibly do. Would also mean I could try and lose a bit of weight and get DH to cut down booze as much as possible. But I will be 39 in October, so that would mean if we did fall pregant I'd be almost 40 when giving birth, so makes me even more worried about risks and that its just not going to happen. It's just the thought of spending £360 on something we might not need, when you are working it doesn't sound a lot of money, but I haven't worked since having ds2.

Thanks March, Sasha and too for your input, really helps. Too I am also not happy re my cycle length, has increased massively since ds2, my longest cycle has been 54 days (which resulted in a mmc at 6+4) and my average is 40-44 days. My luteal phase has always been great, but the follicular is longer. I asked Mr watts yesterday whether my lining could have festered for too long by then, or whether my eggs are crap by then because they take so long to be released but he said there is nothing known to suggest it's a problem. But not that much research is done so I'm still doubtful. Just can't help feeling that 6 mcs in a row is more than bad luck. They told me that being positive for lupus anticoagulant is a good result as its one of the most treatable causes of miscarriage but I have had 3 miscarriages since that diagnosis. One on progesterone and aspirin with intention of clexane if got to a scan stage, one on progesterone with the intention of clexane, and one on progesterone and clexane from BFP. Oh Sasha, thanks re the scan tip but they already said I'd need to phone the epau when I take the clomid to arrange a scan and he said I might need more than one scan, so they can monitor how much I respond to it or not as the case may be. They have prescribed 2x50mg daily, is that what you had?

Bumble hope you have a good scan.

Minnie I can't have been sat next to Brummie unless she has been telling us porkies as I was sat next to someone expecting twins lol. Am thinking about who was there though. Were you on your own and wearing white trousers and a vest top Brummie?