Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 21 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[Justonemoretime]

Buckle up, the threads move like lightening! Tea, sympathy, information, support and combined wisdom to guide you through the maze of testing and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. Newbies always most welcome.

Please start with the traditional recap of your stats.

Hi Allthere

So sorry for your losses and so sorry you find yourself you here. We are the club no one wants to be in. But we are here to hand hold and support.

Unfortunately "only" having 2 mc's means that potentially you won't get any tests done and be given the usual "bad luck try again" bollocks that we have all been given when we had 2.

The good news is, that despite having 2, your chances of having a 3rd are no higher. Recurrent miscarriage - of 3 in a row is actually quite rare.

But I appreciate the terror and grief you are going through now. I remember it all too well.

My advice about trying again is that you could go to Coventry to the implantation clinic, they will see anyone who had has just 1 loss. But you have to had 2 x cycles and not be pregnant when you go.

They scratch your lining and test for NK cells to see if steroids are required. They also prescribe progesterone from 7 days post ovulation to give you a "oomph" to ro speak. They also prescribe heparin injections, not to thin blood but to protect the developing placenta cells. We've had some Coventry babies on this thread - our very own Tanny had Bertie about 7 weeks ago ish after following Coventry protocol.

Should you to start again, my only advice would be try and wait for your first period before trying. I know it's a hard and your body is screaming to be pregnant again but it really is for the best.

And remember every single pregnancy is different, every lining, every embryo is brand new. Every single pregnancy is a blank canvas and a fresh start.

We are here for you though

And Sasha in answer to your numbers questions

Prof Brosens told me it is indeed a numbers game.

Of 100 women who have 3 mc's, next time 50 of those will have a 4th mc, and 50 of those have a baby.

Of the 50 who have a 4th mc, 25 will have a 5th mc and 25 will have a baby and so and so on.

The best way, Prof Brosens said to have a baby, is simply to keep going and remember the fresh start every time mantra.

Hi allthere so sorry for your losses. I echo what brummie said except to add that a few people on this thread have had better luck persuading their doctor to refer them for tests after 2 losses, particularly if there are other factors such as age or fertility problems. Sometimes GPs will order some basic hormone, thyroid and glucose tolerance tests too, and then there's the option of private testing if that interests you.

just, sorry to hear you're back in again. How frustrating for you. Glad little just is ok though. Not long now. Fingers crossed this is the last time until your due date

Wow, not long to go now purple, how exciting. Sorry you are anxious about the breach position. I agree that you should have time get in and get the section arranged even if you did start up. Hard not to worry after everything you've been through though. Hugs x

Welcome allthere, so sorry to hear about your losses. I would agree that it's worth asking for a referral for some testing, particularly if you have other things against you, like age. It's a horrible limbo after two when it just feels like you're waiting for the next before they will do anything. Chances are still good without any intervention so hopefully you will be a lucky one. and in the meantime if they will refer you to rmc or your gp agrees to do any tests then at least you could get the ball rolling and hopefully it will be entirely wasted effort when you get your successful pregnancy next time.

allthere just want to say hello and sorry you've found yourself here. I found my 2nd mc really hard to cope with. That 'it's happened to me again' feeling really crushing. Hope you've some good RL support and don't rush in trying to feel better. I would ask if you can be referred to the recurrent mc clinic for testing. Sadly the majority of the nhs don't always consider 2mc to be enough to qualify to be referred. Its usually 3 mc unless age or existing health is working against you. Still ask though. Its a stupid rule ... Have you ever heard of someone having to have 3 heart attacks before treatment? As brummie said the chances of a successful pregnancy next time still massively outweigh the chances of a 3rd mc. Please feel free to get through this with us. I've only had 2mc and couldn't survive without the other ladies on here. I haven't been referred to the rmc unit. My gp was kind enough to run some basic blood tests though and i have followed the coventry route that many wave pom poms for on here. My nk cells were normal but i'm currently using progesterone and heparin to support an early bfp. You don't have to wait longer before ttc again physically, only if a break might help you get your head round things.

Will have a proper catch up later. It's actually sunny. In Yorkshire!! Oh might have spoken too soon.

Thanks for your messages I think they'll just keep an eye on me here over night and make a decision on scans and how long they'll keep me tomorrow. They say it will take less of a bleed to decide to take action (c-section) the further I get, so, for example, if it keeps happening after about 34 weeks they may just decide to take miniJust out. They'll probably leave him/her in as long as possible before 34 weeks unless there was a massive bleed (pint +). As long as the baby is not distressed (it isn't) and the placenta is working (it was fine on Wednesday's scan), they'll just keep me on obvs or send me home (to return if I bleed again).
Waves to everyone. Welcome newbies, hope you find this information helpful.
Purple, hope you're OK, I'm sure there will be time to do what you and baby need safely.
Sasha, thinking of you. Its horrible to feel back at square one, but I think the wait will help you feel strong enough for your next try.

Just hope you're enjoying as much catch up TV as possible. Sorry you're back in hospital but glad little just is doing fine.

I mean info on the thread in general, not specifically about my troubles...

Haha just, think (hope!) everyone realised what you meant!

Very open to it minnie** also, make sure he writes down all your details correctly as i got a copy of the letter sent to my gp on friday and its littered with errors!

I never thought about due dates until recently, mc 1 would have been due in the same week i had mc 3, mc 2 woyld have been in a couple of weeks and mc 3 would have been september, same date as close friend. What a shit year!

Seeing as I'm having a quick de-lurk thought I should introduce myself properly.

Tried for my ds for two years. Had an ectopic at 7 weeks and a chemical (4w4d) during that time. Have been trying for no 2 for 15 months. I've had a mc at 5.2 and 2 cp at 4.3. I'm seeing Mr Shehata and an infertility consultant as in general I don't get preggers that quickly. In recent months, I had a laparoscopy/hysteroscopy to remove an ovarian cyst, been diagnosed with Factor V Leiden (a blood clotting issue) and I've been told I don't ovulate regularly so was put on clomid, but it just made me grow another cyst so I've been taken off it. I've also been told my AMH (egg reserve) is low for my age 36. The last cp hit me hard as I was on aspirin, fragmin and progesterone and hoped for a different outcome.

When I was trying for my ds the hardest part was thinking I'd never get the chance to be a mum. Now my sadness is about not being able to provide a sibling.

Sasha - you sound so on the ball regarding the testing etc. I'm impressed. I think it's so sensible as well, because from my experience dealing with NHS is things can get lost in the system/forgotten about if you don't try to stay on top of it. Good luck at Kingston RMC and if you do ever decide to see Mr Shehata please feel free to pm me if you want any more info. I relate to so much you say about having a tough start in life and wondering when it's your turn to be happy. Also about the age gap. My son is 26 months and I would have loved a smaller age gap but I am trying to see the positives as well. At least he'll be toilet trained/able to dress himself etc if and when baby no 2 appears!

baking and cloudjumper - thanks so much for the info about ovarian reserve and AMH, you've definitely cleared up a few of my questions! baking - I got prescribed aspirin, vit D and pregnacare and then at BFP (test from day 24) fragmin and progesterone. I've been toying with the idea of DHEA for a while but at the moment I'm just taking royal jelly and q10 to see if that will help.

Sorry to all those who are getting babybombed. It is an awful feeling. I get the most intense jealousy and have to go into hiding or hide FB newsfeeds. FB is the worst when you are ttc unsuccessfully. I'm incredibly lucky to have my ds but it's so hard to avoid babies and bumps because of all the playgroups/soft plays etc. Everyone seems so fucking fertile. I've got 8 local friends and 6 of them are either pregnant or have had a baby in the last few months. Sometimes I wish I could go into hibernation.

just and purple - good luck to you both. You are on the home stretch now and I hope you get your take-home baby. In fact I hope we all do.

Hope you had a good night Brummie* and just* hope you're ok. 37 weeks is fully baked so not long to go! I wish i'd had my ds induced at 37 weeks (which having g.d i could have) because by that point you just want them out usually and at 41 weeks he was very yellow! (it did fade to a lovely tan mind!)

Allthere** welcome to a wonderful place that exists for a horrible reason. You're in good company so pull up a chair! How old are you and where are you living? My friend who has had a chemical pregnancy and a mc at 6 weeks in the last year was referred to Leeds St James. She has just turned 40. She got pregnant before even having another period and is having weekly hcg injections. So sometimes the system is a bit more lenient. Rhe third mc floored me totally. My brain and heart was broken but good ol' body still got me to and from work everyday (i think i was on tge verge of a breakdown if i hadn't eventually had some days off!) What i wish i'd done after mc 2? Well, i got pg straight away again. I wish i'd left it a bit, and i wish i'd heard of Coventry then and had gone back then, because 1 miscarrige felt like taking one for the team

2 felt like bad luck, but 3 feels like a curse...

Ok I'm trying again as I think my first post got swallowed up in the speedy thread! Got my first RMC appointment tomorrow. Nervous as hell but hoping it will be the start of more positive things. Any questions I should be asking particularly? What's important for me to know? I'd appreciate any suggestions

Minnie, ask what tests they run as routine, ask about the pattern of your MCs if there is one, and any other history. I'd take any letters or paperwork you have from your MCs as they may want to take copies. I'd also write your history down in advance as then you can make sure its recorded correctly if you get flummoxed or upset in the appointment. Ask what % success they have with various protocols. Ask also whether you need any procedures to rule out anatomical issues or blockages. I hope that helps. Try to find the consultant's secretary's direct email or phone number so you can ask anything you think of later. I recommend writing a list of questions in advance, too so that you don't forget any. Good luck. Sorry I missed your earlier post. x

Thank you all for your warm welcome. A wonderful shitty place to be :).

I've just turned 30, and have had a successful, straightforward pregnancy with DC1. I'm not prime for early testing I don't think but can only ask. Unfortunately I'm in the deepest, darkest highlands so Coventry is quite a way away!

just here's to a short hospital stay and happy news from your next scan. I'll have your wine too.

minnie you could also ask about any trials that are running at the moment, whether they will prescribe heparin and progesterone when you get pregnant again.

Good to meet you wadsy. I relate to what you're saying. A combination of taking a while to conceive each time and 3 mcs means that the age gap between dd and this one will be nearly 4 years. In some ways I am sad about that but now it's actually a reality it doesn't seem to matter as it did in theory. Dd is old enough now ti be excited and If this baby arrives safely I am sure I will stop wishing she was a 2 year old already.

Thanks just and longest that's really helpful. I'm sure it'll be fine- not helped by the fact I'm the worlds worst worrier! Can't decide whether wrong with me or wrong with the baby is what I want to hear. Don't know which is the easiest to fix. Mind you 3mcs pretty much indicates me!

Welcome wadsy and allthereis it's a fab place to find people who sadly know exactly how you're feeling. And are fountains of knowledge and great hand holders! Sorry you have to be here but hope it helps. X

I keep being congratulated on my 4 year age gaps and I feel honour bound to point out we didn't plan it this way. Once you get your family you won't mind what shape it is, there are ways of making it work.

Stay put baby just !

minnie good luck tomorrow

You've absolutely hit the nail on the head Baking hopefully we'll get our family.

I wanted 3 really badly - i suspect because I'm 1 of 3, but once I got to a certain age I did think this a bit unrealistic.

So it was always 2.

But everything we've been through and we haven't even got 1 yet, that actually we've said do you know what? We'll be so happy with 1 and the two us, little one and our 2 fat cats will be our little family and it will work for us. And we are at peace with that.

I don't feel once we've done this, that I could go through it all again but I do worry I would leave our child without a sibling. But at 40 next year, if this is going to be the way we have to do - I'm not sure I can. So our aim is the one now.

Our little family - and that is thought that keeps me going through these really dark times

Sorry you're back in hospital, just! Do they know why you keep having these bleeds? It must be so nerve-wrecking, hope you can get out soon and that baby just stays put for a bit longer.

I visited a friend today who had a baby recently, and it was actually OK. just made me broody as hell, and as a consequence, I am now freaking out a bit. Hoping to go back to head in the sand quickly. It has worked quite well so far, up to the point I keep forgetting to take my vitamins and the progesterone Had to turn around on my way to work the other day because I'd forgotten to take it in the morning. Think I need to have some bullets in my bag with me at all times.

You're right longest and baking a 4 year age gap is not a big deal, at least by then the eldest has developed some empathy for the baby and doesn't try to hurt it as much. I've seen some of my friends' toddlers do some shocking things to their baby siblings! And the eldest is a lot more self sufficient by then too! My next door neighbours have a 5 year age gap and they play really well together.

minnie thanks for the welcome - I'm really sorry to hear about your 3 losses and I really hope your app goes well. You'll probably feel better just to be doing something practical. So much of this mc stuff sucks because it makes us feel as if we don't have any control. At least the appointments and investigations give us a bit of a sense of control back.

brummie I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm very sorry if I am, but I remember how hard it was when I was trying for my ds and I was on threads like this. I used to hate listening to people like me moaning about not having no 2. I used to think "FFS at least you've got one - be happy!" I hope with all my heart you get your baby - and soon - I remember that awful feeling of wondering if I'd ever get the chance to be a mum. It was horrible.

minnie I took a spreadsheet with info on all 3 mcs, AF patterns, Drs dates, other symptoms - anything I could pull together. I also had a list of questions but still forgot to ask them all .
Try to take the time you need and be clear when they'll next be in touch before you leave. I had bloods done on the day and scan appointment arrived this weekend, for June, but forgot to ask how long results take.
I was really mixed up about whether no pattern was a good thing or bad thing - nothing obviously broken but also therefore nothing I can do different next time (= head a total mess). Consultant was nice though and I'm under their care now do hopefully a bit less of being pushed around teams at the hospital. We've done every floor of the building now (6 storeys!). It was very weird seeing scans, notes and even full colour pictures (ectopic surgery) from all 3 MCs together in one file.
Good luck!