Recurrent Miscarriage Support Thread 21 - tests, treatment, trying again.

[Justonemoretime]

Buckle up, the threads move like lightening! Tea, sympathy, information, support and combined wisdom to guide you through the maze of testing and treatment for recurrent miscarriage. Newbies always most welcome.

Please start with the traditional recap of your stats.

Two periods then do opk and when you ov you call kerri, appointment is 7 to 10 days after ov. Bank holiday shouldn't make too much difference as it's quite flexible i think. The 7 to 10 days is just so your lining is thick enough but you've not started bleeding. Glad that acu had worked for you freckle. I was equally surprised that mine did the same, brought ov forward from cd19-21 to cd16-17. Seems my cynicism was misplaced!

Thanks March! Yes, i too was cynical. I feel nothing lying there and nothing after, except a bit more relaxed, but i guess it's just some ancient technology we can't understand! X

Mostly just my impatience sasha! Although in tcm they suggest that if the egg takes too long in the follicular phase its quality can decrease. Obviously it's not too bad a thing as a hell of a lot of people have a cycle that length or longer!

I'd completely planned to go to Coventry but got my BFP the month before. I managed to convince the consultant at the RMC to follow their protocol though so managed to get the same treatment as I would have if I'd gone. I think I was very lucky to have such an understanding consultant though.

The two months is to get rid of pregnancy hormones and the WTF cycles so your lining biopsy is representative. AFAIK until recently Coventry were the only clinic doing the biopsy for uNK cells, someone else mentioned it was being done in Leeds (?) somewhere further North anyway so prob not helpful for you. Drs Shehata and Gorgy in London do blood tests, it's controversial whether there is correlation between blood levels and uterine levels. I've never heard of anyone visiting Dr S and not being told they have NK issues, whereas it's only about 10% of those who have the biopsy.

march did you still have a decent LP? I always ov'd around cd19-21 but then AF arrived 7 days later, so I had the long follicular phase followed by no time to implant before the womb started shedding! This is my first cycle temping and opking in ages as there was no point in the run up to iui/ivf and between. I'm on cd18 and no +opk yet .

sasha/sebs/Minnie and others I've probably missed who've just been discussing this - I'm in the waiting game as well. I got the letter from the clinic with the details of the nk testing. It's a biopsy same as Coventry, cost is £250 plus £75 for the pathologist, so slightly cheaper than Coventry at £325 for anyone who is closer to Sheffield! (Thornbury hospital). We can't do it this cycle as we've had sex, but I think I keep telling myself it would be best not to do it immediately post ivf, to give the body a cycle to get over the hormones. The trouble is, 7-9 days after ov next month is most likely to be while we're away for 6 days . They will only do it in that 3 day window. This pushes it forward to June, which means ivf wouldn't be until July, and DH is away for 4 weeks at the end of July/Aug so I'd have to go through it all on my own, or wait until September. September seems a bloody long way away!!!

My other issue is, as I said above, my LP is generally 7 days, occasionally 8-9 on random cycles. This means that AF will have started when they do the biopsy. Surely this won't work?! I didn't think to ask when I called, I think I'll have to call again on Monday. If they can do it during AF I wouldn't have to not TTC as I'd know I wasn't pg by the time they could do the biopsy!!!! But this seems ridiculous, they can't test the womb lining while it's being shed can they?!

The other possible wait - if I'm positive for nk cells they will give me steroids for a month and then repeat the biopsy. This is to see whether the steroids will reduce the count, as they don't work for everyone and they won't give them to you in pregnancy unless they've been proved to work for you. Has anyone else heard of this?

Happy weekend everyone!!

Hi Sasha

Cov protocol is progesterone from 7 days post ovulation. After 7 days test and if bfn, stop taking.

If BFP contact your early pregnancy unit for a location scan (to make sure not ectopic rather than checking for hb) and if all ok then start daily heparin injections which should be prescribed by your EPAU.

If your EPAU won't / can't do it. Coventry will do it for you.

If your biopsy is positive for uNK cells you will get a letter confirming you need steroids which your GP should do.

I think I've got that correct!! Still waiting for my results

Hello ladies

I've been lurking for a while. I'm so sad and sorry to read about everything you've all been through. TTC can be such a horrible, unfair, cruel process. Sounds a bit weird but I'm so low at moment I don't have the energy to join properly/contribute. I just wanted to let you know that coming here is saving my sanity. It's lovely to feel understood. Also I read your blog in one sitting flen - amazing, thank you.

What's caused me to pipe up, is I thought I could be useful. Firstly just wanted to say baking I'm seeing Mr Shehata and I haven't been diagnosed with high natural killer cells! I was sadly a bit disappointed! But I have the factor V Leiden gene so he reckons my blood is clotting too easily. Also, Mr Shehata does NHS work as well as private. I am an NHS patient of his at Epsom at St Helier hospitals. I might be wrong but I believe it is possible for people who aren't local to be referred to him via their GP for NHS treatment if they ask for him. I hope I'm not sending anyone on a wild goose chase but sasha might be worth trying? He is a lovely man. I was really scared/vulnerable when I went to see him and he really put me at ease.

Whilst I'm here I just wanted to ask those who have been having getting pregnant probs as well as staying pregnant probs, has anyone been told they have low ovarian reserve? I'm wondering if any of my losses are down to crap eggs. Anyone know anything about this? X

Barking** please may i ask how i would go about getting an appointment to the sheffield place, thornbury? That is a complex set of circumstances x

I've had a hunch that my ov post day 18 is a contributing factor in my rmc. My luteal phase is still usually 11 days, which is only just on the short side, but i wonder if the egg hanging around so long does reduce its quality. In which case i bloody hope the accupuncture is working!

Sasha my colleague in my direct eyeline is pregnant too and I won't lie , it's been really difficult and still is.

Whilst she has been very sensitive I admit I am counting down the days until she finishes. But it's my twattish colleagues around me that I find hardest, talking openly to her about being pregnant and giving birth.

It's her 2nd and I don't even have any dcs yet!!!

3 mc's and I'm 40 next year. But all around me people are falling pregnant and having babies. My friends put shit on fb about "being great mummies" (something that really sets my teeth on edge - the word Mummies) and post links from "Mummy blogs" does my head in and just twists the knife further and further.

I want to ask friends who are the same age and now pregnant, why did your baby survive and my 3 didn't?

I admit I also feel jealous when I see people who were on their first mc with me on the mc boards way back now very happily pregnant. I know 1 mc is as horrendous as any number and I feel ashamed, but I am jealous

Brummie, you have nothing to be ashamed about, just understandable emotions as a result of the experience you have been through.

Brummie unfollow them! I don't miss any of the fb nonsense since unfollowing anyone who has a child, is pg, or might possibly announce. Even if they don't post stuff that makes me they often have profile pictures of them with their baby/child and just seeing that makes me . My entire social circle has changed. Even meeting friends in the pub when they've left the kids at home puts me on edge as I just brace myself for when they mention them. They have all had babies and moved on, we're still childless but long to be part of the club. I've started avoiding anyone with a child in any situation. We're considering moving house out of the area, it's all getting too painful. We have put off plans for 3 years now as this would be a perfect house to start a family in, we're financially stable and could go down to one income etc, but three years later we're still waiting and having to face the fact that it might never happen.

freckle I just called this number and was posted a letter with the details and told to call when I had ovulated to book in 7-9 days later. I've seen Mr Metwally at the fertility clinic though, so I don't know whether you'd need an appointment with him first. His secretary should be able to quickly answer that though .

I've just realised a potentially amusing situation. As I said earlier I might end up doing our frozen round of ivf in July, when DH will be away for a month, otherwise I'd have to wait until September. If by some miracle it works, and we end up announcing we're pg, everyone will know DH wasn't in the country!! It's a good thing we're open about the ivf!!

Hi all I've been lurking. I alternate between needing fellow mc-ers and support with little questions and pretending mine never happened. Sasha sorry about this latest mc and Wadsy sorry you're feeling low. I know one person who saw mr shehata and tested neg for nk too. What I've read online tho suggests high levels of positive results from the blood test as compared to biopsy.

I'm in second month post-Coventry now. My cb opk turned positive two days before normal. Has anyone ov-ed 3 or 4 days after positive opk? Or can I be confident we covered our bases by dtd on the two days of positive opk and stop now? We're exhausted on all fronts. I used to be v clear on ttc, opks, temps but my cycle isn't quite textbook at the mo.

Hope everyone is doing ok. Brummie I get where you're coming from.

barking - quick question. Are you having weekly acupuncture?

Until last week, yes Sebs, now moved to once a fortnight for cost reasons. Been having it on and off for almost two years, stopped when we had to have our break last year waiting for tests then started again before the iui and continued through the ivf. Acupuncture got my cycles back after nothing for 3 months following mc1. It had moved ov a few days earlier. The first cycle after ivf is generally a wtf cycle anyway, due to all the extra hormones.

Sorry to those struggling with colleagues and friends having babies around them. I'm very much feeling that too. It's hard. It's a very particular type of jealousy and i don't like it in myself.

Barking, my LP is 13 days, so not too bad. It's my follicular phase that was long, but now getting much more normal. Bbt is down to a more reasonable level as well (which is apparently all related). Difficult to know what to do about the trip for the nk testing with your short LP. I would definitely seek some advice. Cov stipulated you mustn't be bleeding so I'd imagine they are the same (as, by then you are shedding your lining). Maybe they will suggest an earlier appt at 5 or 6 dpo? I seem to remember you were doing acupuncture but if not,maybe they could help. Or the other thought i had was that maybe if you took progesterone that would help extend your LP for the nk month. But not sure if that would affect the results though.

sasha As you get older, your ovarian reserve decreases. To test this, you measure the levels of Anti-Mullerian Hormone (AMH) in your blood - you'll have to do this privately, the GP doesn't do that.
However, it does not say anything about the quality of your eggs, just the quantity.
I had my AMH measured, and it was very low (even for my age), and yet I still fall pregnant.
I certainly have issues with egg quality, 2 of my miscarriages were due to chromosomal abnormalities. Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing you can do about that...
Some studies have shown that taking DHEA can help with egg quantity, and I think it is often taken by women who are having IVF. I took it for a few months, but ironically stopped before I fell pg again. I have no idea if it had anything to do with that...

I know how you feel about the whole sibling issue - I had a massive panic about that after my last mc a year ago. Started looking into adoption and donor egg IVF - but DH doesn't want either, so that's a no go. I feel better about it all now, simply because I had to accept the fact that there will be no 2- or 3-year gap between siblings, I am lucky if I manage sub-5! Never planned it that way (and I'm a planner, too!), and it took me a long time to accept that. But it's OK - DS is happy, has lots of friends and is very sociable. I still worry about that he might be alone when it comes to 'sorting us out' when we get to a stage that we can't look after ourselves anymore...

Have you thought about having some counselling? I had this last year, and it has helped me immensely. There are counsellors who specialise in pregnancy loss, it might be worth looking into that.

Welcome wadsy well done for de-lurking. I stand corrected on the blood NK test then, it is possible to get normal results. Are you planning to take heparin for factor V Leiden?
I had my AMH tested and it was good for my age, but agree with cloud that it gives an idea of quantity but not quality. There is a tendency to blame everything on crap eggs as you get older, which is certainly not always the case. I think it is often used as a fobbing off tactic. There were some women on the pred thread taking DHEA for egg quality, I'm not sure how much you can influence it though, given that you are not making new eggs (think it is supposed to help with maturation)

I got double baby-bombed today (which I appreciate is ridiculous now I have my baby). I went to a ladies breakfast in a local pub as a social thing, only to find the speaker not only works in pregnancy loss counselling but has a son with SN and spoke about grieving for the child you expected to have! Sod off and let me enjoy my bacon sandwich without emotional turmoil please!

Sasha yep I've been to Coventry. Also had all the rmc tests from my consultant - Mr Watts - at Worcester. All completely clear. Got my hystereoscopy on Wednesday which I suspect will be completely clear.

My lining is at little thin at 6mm but other than waiting for my uNK results from Coventry, there is absolutely nothing wrong with me. Zilch, nada.

Apart from the fact that I can't stay pregnant

I did stupid stuff in my 20's and my 30's but I will tell you something. If it's going to stick, it WILL stick. You could climb Everest and you'd be ok.

It's absolutely nothing you have done. So please don't beat yourself up about what daft things you might have done.

So I've painted my nails, going to rock out in the expensive killer heels and new jeans and going out on a date with DP. Remind ourselves there is more to life than sadness. Going to have a nice dinner, get pissed on New Zealand Sauv Blanc, couple to cheeky G&T's afterwards, come home and shag lots.

Because I WILL get pregnant again and I will have a baby and I have to believe that otherwise I have nothing to hold on to.

So going to enjoy my time getting dressed up and pissed with DP just because we can

Big love to you all xx

Enjoy your night brummie! And ditto on the wine!