Recurrent Buns - MC Testing and Beyond... Part 4...!!!

[Julezboo]

Gosh we can chat ladies!!!

Part one HERE

Part two HERE

Part three HERE

List

STARTING TESTING

LAF77 , Age 33, MC1 (7 weeks Apr 10) MC2 (5 weeks Sept 10) MC3 (9 weeks Dec 10). All have been natural mcs and number 1 and 3 were embryonic for sure. No children, no RMC appt, no diagnosis and not TTC.
PANDA 3MMC, no.1 (embryonic loss - empty sac) 7weeks, no.2 at 12 weeks, no.3 at 8 weeks. Awaiting raft of tests for recurrent MC
CLAIREDELOON Age 38 1st mmc, development stopped approx 5 weeks (2007), 2nd mmc development stopped at approx 6 weeks (2009), 3rd mc development stopped at 9 weeks after seeing hb at 8+3 (2010). Bicornate uterus, starting testing Feb 2011.
NOTSOBARRENBROOK Age 35. 1st mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2009), 2nd mmc @ 6 weeks (Jan 2010), 3rd mmc @ 11 weeks, development stopped at 6 weeks 3 days (March 2010), 4th mmc @ 5 weeks (August 2010). Possible adenomyosis, awaiting hsg and results of testing from St Mary's.
MILKYWAY2007 Age 27 - DD age 3. 1st MC Oct
2009, 6 weeks. 2nd MMC March 2010, 11 weeks (baby passed away at 7 weeks). 3rd MC July 2010, 6 weeks. 4th MMC 24 Jan 2011, 9 weeks - no amniotic sac, baby measured 7weeks 4 days, no HB, had seen a healthy HB at 7 weeks. Blood clotting, hormone, genetic karyotype and shape and health of uterus checked and all clear - although high prolactin level found. Waiting for appointment at RMC with consultant, and wanting to be referred to St Mary's.
LUCKYFOR2 Age 32 - DD age 5. DD age 3. 1st MC May 2010 found at 12 week scan passed away at 9 weeks. 2nd MC September 2010 natural at 8 weeks. 3nd MC January 2011 at 16 weeks, saw hb at 13 but no hb at 15.5. Bloods taken from me and DH at hospital at last MC and awaiting results on baby from PM.
IGGI2011 - Age 40, 3 year old DS. 3 MC last year, at 6, 8 and 8 weeks. Last two had hb detected. Having bloods taken by obs soon.

UNDERGOING TREATMENT

CRYSTAL5 Age 38 - DS age 4. 6 m/c 1 at 11 weeks, 5 at 5/6 weeks. Ok blood tests, under Endocrinologist for Hypothyroid
BANANA87 Age 30- 1mmc@7 weeks, DD (2), 1 mmc 6 weeks, 1 mc 7 weeks, currently waiting one more cycle before TTC. Going to try aspirin and progesterone as per consultant. Clotting bloods normal.

TTC

MUMMYABROAD Age 35, 1DS (2.9), 1MMC Mar 2010 (@14weeks) Ashermans diagnosis and treatment Nov 2010, Started TTC Jan 2011 Cycle 1
DIGITALGIRL Age 32 - DS 2.4 - 3MCs since ttc#2. MC1 5wks. MC2 6-7wks. MC3 7-8wks. Awaiting clotting & karyotyping results, under consultant care for rmc. Mild pcos. Currently TTC.
LOVEMYSLEEP Age 39, 1 mmc, dd born(now 5), 2nd mc (9wks, 2days), 3rd mc (9wks, 3days) and 4th mc at 5 wks. All tests on NHS came back clear. Currently undergoing treatment with Dr.Shehata for very high natural killer cells

PREGNANT

LUNATIC dd1(4) 2 mmc (8 wks) dd2 stillborn (32+5), clotting problem, pg #5 section booked for 9th Feb @ 35wks. On 150mg aspirin daily.
GLITTERYBITS 1 anembryonic MC (12 weeks), unexplained infertility, 1 round of clomid, currently pg and terrified!
JUSTMEE Age 21, MC1 (7 weeks), MC2 (6weeks), MC3 (5weeks) currently pregnant with 4th pregnancy using clexane injecting 20mg a day
LADYBEE 37, MC1 (5wks), DS (2), MC2 blighted ovum discovered @ 8 wk scan, MC3 natural @ 9 wks following hb seen at 7 1/2 wk. PCOS previously diagnosed, Factor V Leiden heterozygote discovered in recent testing. Treatment with aspirin (from BFP) + clexane started at 6 weeks.
LOVELYBUNCHOFCOCONUTS Age 23, 1 MC (13 weeks), 1 MMC (10 weeks - growth stopped at 7), 1DD born 2008, PCOS diagnosis, bi-cornuate uterus.
HAIRYFAIRYLIGHTS
HAIRYCLAREYFAIRY

GRADUATES WITH BABIES!!

STILLFRAZZLED Age 35, DS1 (3.6yo), 1 mc @ 5 weeks Jan 09, 2nd mc @ 9 weeks March 09, DS2 born @ 35+3 on 04/01/11 with Intra Uterine Growth Restriction and currently in Special Care Baby Unit.
MUMATRON Age 28 2 dc then 4mc, 3 @9weeks 1@5weeks, tests showed possible free protein s ishoo. dd2 born 06/01/2011, aspirin, claxane and high dose folic acid through pg.
JULEZBOO Age 29 1 mc @ 14 wks, DS1 (8yo) 4 mc @ 5/6 wks, DS2 (3) 2 mc @7 wks... DS3 (14/01/11 @35 wks) Dx with Factor V Leiden and Septate Uterus. Clexane and Aspirin throughout pregnancy and progesterone with DS3.

Will do a catch up post now...

scooter I had counselling after my third mc, I thought it would help me work through the grief but I think posting on mn was a much better outlet for me - feel free to use this thread as your personal blog. It wont be forever and it helps when newbies look in to see how normal this process is of grieving while battling for answers.

laf glad to hear appointment was swift and comfortable. And I'm also glad that June doesn't feel too far away in terms of ttc.

It's my follow up appt with Mr Shehata's colleague tomorrow morning. In prep I've been researching on other forums for testimonials. Overall he has quite a high success rate, but inevitably there are those who have continued to have problems. I just hope I can be another success story. I'm also wondering if I can count the three days of brown bleeding I had last weekend as a post-mc period. I'm due to ov next weekend and I know if I skip ttc this cycle I'll have a proper bright red period in three weeks time. A question for tomorrow I guess. Along with asking if I can take the steroids a few days after ovulating rather than bang on, as it always takes me a few days to confirm ovulation via temping and cervix position.

Hi Digital best of luck for tomorrow. I think Dr Shehata should give us discounts because of all the trade his thread has drummed up for him!
He may be surprised when I see him to find I'm already on all the vitamins that he prescribes! Hope you get the answers you're looking for.
Scooter I'm going to phone my GP tomorrow to try to sort the letter thing out. I hadn't wanted to say I was seeing someone privately, but I'll have to to make them give me the test records on time!

I was wondering if someone could post a list of the vits that de shahada prescribes please

Good luck with your appointment today Digitalgirl. If you get a chance to read this before you go, and this is a request for anyone going to see Dr Shehata (I just got thinking about this after Iggi's last comment), please don't mention this thread or discussion to him. When I first started looking for information on his testing and treatment programme there was limited information on here and I was directed to fertilityfriends.co.uk to find out what I wanted to know. Whilst over there I noticed that his name is not actually mentioned in full, often in "code" and a lot of posts get deleted. Apparently he had requested from fertilityfriends that his treatment not be discussed on their forums for some reason and his lawyers regularly check that this is not happening. I guess he must have his reasons but it's frustrating not being able to find out more about it by doing a search, as you can imagine! So, I think it's best if we remain vague about where we have heard any particular information. ie. if anyone sees him and mentions that they have already been taking the relevant supplements perhaps they can just say that they were told to take them by the RMC they had seen before. I think I actually was recommended most of them after my previous testing, apart from the Omega 3 and pregnancy vits.

Iggi about my comments on chromosome anomalies, I'm not 100% sure if the info I have is regarding cause for miscarriage or continued pregnancies with trisomies actually as my facts are based on the genetic counselling I had after finding these things later in pregnancy. All I can say for sure is that a lot of pregnancies end due to chromosome problems regardless of age. It's a completely random thing that sometimes happens when sperm and egg meet that occasionally produces 3 of one particular chromosome. The reason for this is completeley unknown and uncontrollable but there have been studies in Israel that have shown that a higher does (5mg) of Folic Acid can possibly help reduce the chances of this happening in some cases. The study was to do with the prevention of Downs Syndrome, I'm not sure if it reduces that chance of other Trisomies but it's one of those things that won't do you any harm so it's worth a try. For those asking about reasons for taking a higher dose of Folic Acid, that's one of the reasons. Another reason, for those who haven't been referred for any testing yet, is that if you happen to have MTHFR your body doesn't absorb lower doses of Folic Acid so a higher dose is needed (or something similar, this is from memory now so probably not precise).

Hairy He prescribes a pregnancy vitamin such as Pregnacare or Sanatogen, Omega 3, 25 microgrammes of Vit D3, 75mg Asprin, Folic Acid and then, once tests come back, the relevant treatment for your situation. I'm a bit confused because he told me he wanted me to take the supplements for 6 wks min before pregnancy but the information that I was sent with my prescription said 8 weeks so don't know whether to hold off 'til next cycle or not as it's been just over 5 weeks now and I'm due to ovulate some time this week I think. That is if it doesn't happen over the next 2 nights that I am away which wouldn't be much help!

Also meant to say, was it Iggi who asked? Vit D3, I think it's ok for vegetarians, but not vegans. I think it's derived from animals skin or wool, I don't think it's taken from dead animals. I did have a look on Google myself about this as I am also a vegetarian. The main problem is that Omega 3 is fish oil encased in animal gelatine but Dr Shehata said it's ok to take plant derived Omega 3 which you can get in healthfood shops.

hk I've never mentioned this thread - but I have mentioned looking on the Internet which shouldn't come as a surprise to any specialist consultant. I wonder if he asked ff to remove his name because people were self-prescribing based on his treatment plan. I've been browsing through the rmc group on babycentre.co.uk and a lot of them have been sharing details of his plan. That's where I came across a couple of posters who had had problems with their cycle/conceiving since taking steroids. Although this was no surprise as my acupuncturist had already told me that taking steroids before ovulation can actually delay it - and I tend to ovulate 1-2 days after my second day of a positive opk. If i started steroids on first positive opk i would have problems. He suggested we ask mr shehata if I can take the steroids from bfp as my last pregnancy didn't indicate implantation problems (hb seen and no growth probs).
I'm having a similar dilemma to you hk where I'm wondering if I could start ttc as due to ovulate in the next few days. I've been taking pregnacare and aspirin since feb (stopped for a week over my erpc), and started the vit d3 about 5 weeks ago. I'm not really expecting to get pg first time, but would like to try and also see how I react to the steroids in a 'no pressure' kind of way ie knowing I'll probably only be taking them for two weeks so if they're awful I can ask about reviewing dosage.
Anyway, appt is 11:30 and not with Mr S himself, so I foresee a big email following the appt.

hairy have since discovered other friends have taken vit d3 when ttc, so it's well known for boosting reproductive health. But yes the 25microg is the dose Mr S prescribes. He didn't mention extra folic acid to me, just said pregnacare plus with omega 3 was fine (it's half price off Amazon). And junior aspirin too. But this might be because I've had a full thrombophilia screening come back clear. I know some posters on here have warned against self-prescribing aspirin.

Havingkittens message understood. Maybe we should just call him "S" in case anyone is searching? I think our case is different though as through sharing the info a number of people are going to see him, not just copying his advice at third hand. Anyway I always take the approach that what happens in MN stays in MN
25 mg of D3 is the dosage by boots tablets give you anyway, by the way, so not suspicious to be on 25!
Thanks for the info on chromosomes. I'm on 2WW at the moment and hate to think at this stage if there's a pg, it could already be doomed.

A quick word about those dosages. I am taking D anyway as I was deficient due to thyroid issues but my H*B tables are 10mcg and the Sanatogen already has 10mcg, so I am just taking one extra a day. For all of you taking Folic Acid and Vitamin D as well as pre preg multivits - are you taking the dosage on top of the multis or adding to them?

freelance am taking the vit d3 on top of the pregnacare but not folic acid.

Wow, there is so much info about "S" here, I am guessing I should get all my initial blood tests done before I start with the supplements recommended? There is a chance I could fix something before its picked up (which would be brilliant but is probably naieve to say the least) but if there is a reason or deficiency, it would be reassuring to know about it before ttc.

Feel I need to just write that my recent posts have been very unfair on my husband and family, they are trying so hard to support me but I am just in a very angry phase and I find it such a shock that no-one has been able to prepare me for this by having any kind of common experience. I am the youngest in my family and last to have kids. I have turned into a monster and totally shut them out, its easiest to take things out on people closest I guess. Its not their fault and I am happy things have gone so smoothly for them. In my finer moments I know that I would rather it happen to me than to anyone else I love. Grovel over!

Digi you're probably in the waiting room now, really rooting for a good appointment for you, let us know how it goes.

Sorry, I probably confused people with my 5mg Folic Acid info. Dr Shehata only recommends the usual 400 microgrammes recommended to any woman TTC, which is probably the dose in Pregnacare etc. Someone asked about higher doses of Folic Acid on here recently which is why I mentioned it. I think it is prescribed in the case of MTHFR and in my own personal situation. Perhaps in others with more progressive doctors, I don't know. A lot of GPs won't prescribe it though, I was given mine by the consultant at the Fetal Medicine Unit.

Digitalgirl that's interesting about steroids delaying ovulation. I wonder if that would be helpful in my case this month seeing as there is a likelihood of ovulation happening whilst I am away from my partner!

Scooter, I was a right stroppy cow to my partner after each of my losses. It's so hard, even when you are aware of the reason and that it's not their fault, to keep it in check and be rational! It may be worth you pursuing counseling. I found it quite helpful when I had it. It's just an impartial place you can let off steam. Not just about your losses but other stuff as well that can sometime seem much bigger than it is when you are feeling angry anyway.

I have a question to ask of anyone who is already undergoing NK Cell treatment. I'm a bit confused. In my initial appointment I was told to take the supplements for a minimum of 6 weeks before TTC but in the info I was sent it said 8 weeks. Having managed to get hold of the prescription now I am trying to work out whether to start them this cycle (this week) or wait until the next one as I have been taking the supplements for 5 1/2 weeks so far. Any ideas?

Hi kittens relief to know that I'm not the only one who's experienced that problem! DH is really getting the punchbag treatment but at least he is beginning to appreciate its not personal and not forever! We managed to have a really good talk last night and that's helped massively. Counselling sounds a positive step but I think it's the added expense of it which is putting me off because if I end up having to pay for any kind of private treatment or testing, that's my priority.

Sorry can't help with your question but my NHS referral to Dr S happened today so imagine/hope(!) I will be coming to you for the expert opinion in a couple of months. I wonder if they will take your kind of question by phone or email at his office?? They surely can't leave you wondering like that.

All the best with the treatment :)

Right - just a quick one as am at work and very busy...

Appointment feedback:
NK Cells came back high! The CD69 total count was 1.25, anything over 0.8 is high. This is a huge relief as was steeling myself for another 'all clear' result.
Had a scan to check how womb and ovaries were looking post-ERPC. Womb is perfect, good thick lining, no fibroids/scarring or anything to worry about.
Ovaries, however, were looking rather inactive. Left one showing some follicles, but right showing nothing. I had been feeling a few twinges on the left and was expecting to ov this weekend, but he doesn't reckon I'm going to ovulate in the next week. However by the looks of my lining he said I'd probably get my period in the next 2-3 weeks. I was expecting it in 3 weeks as all my post-mc periods have always been 60 days after the mc.
So, no ttc right now because there is no egg to ttc for, which would make sense with me never having got pregnant in the first 60 days after my previous miscarriages.

This also means I can have a bit longer on the metformin, plus a bit longer to build up my vitamin d reserves.

I'm to call up the clinic as soon as I get my period. I'll be booked in a for a mid-cycle scan to check on whether I'm about to ovulate, then prescribed the steroids.

Feeling happy and positive to finally have a diagnosis and a treatment plan lined up. A little disappointed that I now have to wait another 6 weeks for an egg, but at least I won't be missing one and putting my body through the steriod treatment unnecessarily.

Great news that you have a way forward digital hopefully, you and I will get back on the pg list soon with a happier outcome.

That sounds great Digitalgirl, lovely to get some proper information about your body and a plan.
Here's a question for any charters - does a sustained temp rise confirm that you have actually ovulated? Just thinking about Digitalgirl's ovulation scan experience, and wondering if I can be sure from my chart that I've ovulated.

That sounds great Digitalgirl, lovely to get some proper information about your body and a plan.
Here's a question for any charters - does a sustained temp rise confirm that you have actually ovulated? Just thinking about Digitalgirl's ovulation scan experience, and wondering if I can be sure from my chart that I've ovulated.

That sounds great Digitalgirl, lovely to get some proper information about your body and a plan.
Here's a question for any charters - does a sustained temp rise confirm that you have actually ovulated? Just thinking about Digitalgirl's ovulation scan experience, and wondering if I can be sure from my chart that I've ovulated.

That sounds great Digitalgirl, lovely to get some proper information about your body and a plan.
Here's a question for any charters - does a sustained temp rise confirm that you have actually ovulated? Just thinking about Digitalgirl's ovulation scan experience, and wondering if I can be sure from my chart that I've ovulated.

Gosh that really is good, comprehensive info Digital, great that you can find out exactly where you are with everything. Frustrating if you didn't want to wait but probably best to know nothing will happen over the next few weeks rather than 'hit and hope' so to speak. I can't wait for my referral to go through! I might call them to check if they have received it yet. It really is such a great resource, I wish more clinics were doing the same and more people in the same position taken as seriously by the medical profession.

Kittens and Scooter, I too am being a bit up and down with the DH but I am finding his is being just as bad. Or he is in my opinion... We are both taking it out on each other and then being really supportive of each other in equal measures. Oh and then going out and getting totally rat arsed together to try to take the edge of RL at the moment.

Just checking on digi great stuff. I'm
Glad they've picked up on high nk cells... You have something to look at and deal with now.

Digi - so pleased you finally a cause to focus on and fix! Its a pain you have to wait a while but I guess every day gets your body a bit readier.

freelance good plan, I have got so used to refusing the old !! Will have to take that up with DH (in moderation of course) - often makes the heart grow fonder...

Rather oddly and completely tmi I have just had the biggest appearance of ewcm in all my days of ttc. Seeing as I have just had a scan which has visibly proven that I don't have any follicles ripe enough to hatch an egg, my body is clearly still out of sync. So very glad I was scanned today otherwise I'd be jumping on dh and making all sorts of pointless demands, then crying over a bfn in two weeks time.

Has anyone had a mid-cycle scan to check follicular development? glittery if you're still out there I'd very much recommend some advice on how quickly follicles can grow.

kittens having just made a decision to wait till next cycle I can only offer the following advice on your dilemma. Bearing in mind how worrying it is for us when we get a bfp, would you feel guilty for not having taken the supplements for the full 8 weeks as recommended or do you think the steroids treatment itself is the most important factor in avoiding another mc? Personally, I would go for it unless someone from Mr S's office actually told me not to (as they have). Why not ring/email his midwife and ask. Whatever you decide to do, we'll be here to fully support you.

Thanks Hairy.

Having - you are so right, what gets me even more is scan pics on facebook, I mean why is that necessary???!!!!

Laff lets hope that this code of practice does make changes, as it is painful enough. It sounds like you are getting the treatment you deserve and it is encouraging to hear that places like St Mary's exist. What sucks is that I will have to miscarry more to be seen by one of them. My clinic is an EPU not RMC and I had a quick phone call with a sister who explained I was going to have lots of tests and a scan, she posted me some forms and an appointment and it said that I will get the results in about 3 months. Seems like ages to me especially as I dont know whether to TTC again or not. Got mixed feelings about the whole thing at the mo.

Thanks Scooter, teh hospitals are so insensitive, I mean cant they have a morning or late appoointment slot where they have RMC patients? It just brings it all back. You are so right those pregnant women are blissfully ignorant and it seems so unfair. My sister is one of then she is now 7 months and had to see her on Friday after the scan, drank wine before I got there and during the visit totally my coping mechanism at the mo! she got PG first real month of trying too when it took me over a year of fertility treatment she is my sister and I dont want to hate her for being PG but I can't help it. My relationship is also a mess over it, DP thinks I should just be over it and doesn't talk about it his opinion is that life goes on and don't dwell on it but so bloody hard, it is great to chat to people that understand.

The good news that came out of my scan is that everything looks normal and I do not have PCOS which is a relief as rules that out as a cause of the miscarriages. I now have the long wait for my results, and time to try to move on and do things so that I don't have to think about TTC, babies or pregnancy.

Waves to everyone I have missed

Hi everyone.

Digi did you work out your weird cm...? My weird symptoms of the day is constant brown bleeding, could be clot, could be af. Who knows...? Good news on the scan confu3ed hope you are out distracting yourself from ttc etc etc with some sunshine.

I was wondering if anyone can help shed some light on some blood tests I have back from the gp.

Thyroid I am up on already: TSH is ok at 0.03, a little bit low but fine, T4 is ok at 16, thyroid antibodies have gone down from 429 to 400 (not sure if that is significant - have been taking selenium)

Vit D is 24.8 which I think might be normal in some tests and slightly on the low side for others

Ferritin is 29 which I think is normal but veering towards the low - might take some iron tablets the doc gave me as I don't eat meat

Anticardiolipin antibodies serum was IGG 0.6, IGM 2.5, I am not really sure what that means!

If these ring a bell to any of you do let me know. In the meantime am off for dinner in the park and hope you are all enjoying the sunshine xx