Fathers 4 Justice

[dolallylass]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it galling that these fathers are scaling building and yet some dads can not get out of their commitment to their kids quick enough??

Where is Mothers 4 Justice crusading for more contact??

I am so sick of doing it all and having to take what my xh can offer graciously (well as graciously as I can muster!!) and then listening to how fathers need more rights. I know there are some fantastic fathers (my neighbour is one) but there are many fathers who leave, drop responsibility and then try and ask for gratitude for the little they do!!

Seriously is there a Mothers 4 Justice or are we all too bl**dy busy??

There's no mothers 4 justice because we can't get babysitters..

There is a a mother group can't remember the name - aims to prevent mums from having to allow contact with violent/dangerous fathers.

Generally I think single mums are too busy to do any campaigning on thier behalf.

I believe ( info from DV sites) that a not insignificant proportion of the fathers4justice organisation have limited/no access to their children for very good reasons as they have conviction for violence etc towards ex/children.

Clearly there are lots of fathers out there who do want to be more involved with their kids and clearly a good caring dad is a tremendous asset to their kids but I don't think father4justice represent this property. (but I don't really know enough about it)

There is only one thing that stops me joining F4J: The thought of my ex using it against me to stop my son seeing his father. I've never been in trouble with the law - not so much as a parking ticket, but if I knew that it would not have an impact on my case, you'd see me up on that roof, too. Along with lots of other people.

There IS a Mothers4Justice, BTW.

BUT. It is not a gender thing. If you go into the statistics (facts like the number of children killed by mothers is about equal to that of fathers, that woman on man DV is almost equal to man on woman) it is nothing to do with the sex of the parent concerned. And we can argue until doomsday about the meaning of the statistics.

There are good and parents. Full stop. In the same way that it is wrong to tar every single mother with the same brush when considering what my ex is done - it is wrong to do the same with fathers.

It is about the children.

I am a member of Families Need Fathers (FNF). Which incidentally has some people say `Yeah! All about fathers!' It is not about fathers. When I go to meetings there are roughly equal numbers of men and women: Single mothers, NRP mothers, sisters, wives, cousins, grandmothers, stepmothers.

If you want to improve/increase contact, this would be the place for it.

FNF is a parenting organisation. Not a `fathers right' group. Please don't take my word for it - Google the website and have a look at it. Personally, I'd say that single mothers joining FNF would be a good thing because as I say...it's about the children and not parents who can't or won't work together for their benefit.

Lost Dad, I will join FNF.

Obviously this is to do with my personal circumstances. It's my DS really, having had to watch him have a reduced relationship with his father has been one of the toughest things I have ever had to go through.

We had no violence in our family sitation and I understand that casts such a different light on things but it is still hard to watch someone withdraw from the two little people I love most in the world in favour of another patner and her child.

My DD is just a different personality and seems to cope better, but with broken communication between myself and their dad I can not explain to him the impact his actions (or rather inaction) has on them.

When ever I have complained he says they can live with him and spend after and before school at a chldminders and then his DP have them when he is away. All I have ever wanted is him to involve himself with them and their lives. They need two parents, both involved in who they are and what they do.

So sad..

All or nothing is his message then, Dolallylass? Hardly fair.

FNF sounds really good. I'm going to look it up.

Yes. It is unfair. Both parents should contribute meaningful amounts of parenting - doesn't change because you've split up. Or at least it shouldn't.

Now, if you could get your ex to join FNF (and I concede that may well be a losing task) that would be great. You should see the comments from members who don't put their kids first.

FNF works closely with MATCH (Mothers Apart from Their Children) - and they have many shared aims.

Blood boiling.

He dropped his mid week contact so that he could commit to every second week collection from school. Once again he has emailed to say he won't be there on time this Friday. I read fathers for justice and I get what they say that in his eyes its all logistics but a) it is unfair and b) it upsets the kids. Although I agree with FNF that their propensity for forgiveness is astonishing!!

I sometimes think he could run over their feet and they would say 'Hey Ho Dad', whereas, woe betide me if I get the wrong juice in the wrong cup!!!!

I was given a massage for Xmas which expires soon and had booked to use it the Friday. I will now have to try and change it (although I don't know where I will get the time??).

I have no way of stopping how he is and he knows it. (I think gets a kick out of that). My friends and family sympathise and I know when I read threads on here many have it much worse but I get so stressed and upset. I gave up smoking a year ago and dealing with him is the only time I am desperate for a fag. I hate him, I honestly hate him. Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Pmsl at wrong juice in the wrong cup. Made me laugh. It's not fair, but it's so true.

The thing with F4J is not just the number of them with DV convictions, it is that their methods involve bullying and harassment (often of women and children - didn't they lock a group of women and children into a library or something) and the fact that they don't seem to see anything wrong with behaving in an intimidating manner to get their own way. Also the misogyny they display is unpleasant.
Families Need Fathers seems to be a far saner organisation.

Sure I read that a leading member of F4J contstantly missed visits with his dc, probably too busy dressing up as Batman.

I can't believe you have to pay to join FNF. Hardly fair on the poor, who deserve help as much as anyone else.

Fnf will give you advice for free if you need or someone to talk to, you just phone their number. But they do ask for as many people to join as possible so they can continue their work. They are a charity after all.

Fnf can also give a great deal of excellent legal advice and feedback from other members, much cheaper than any sol would charge you for!

If you are on a low income and don't qualify for legal aid it can help put you in touch with a MK, who can support you in court, help you through the paperwork and who may make a small charge to cover expenses etc. They will be a lot cheaper, and most likely better informed on the subject, than any sols.

It's well worth the joining fee imo.
Gilly

dollaylass...

I dont know your story, what is your situation?

As for FNF (families need fathers) I am member and can assure you, as others have, that they provide practical/legal help to parents who are being pushed out of their children's lives.

Their ethos is absolutely that children love and benefit from having both parents significantly involved in parenting post separation.

dittany I am sorry you have had bad experiences.

Your dad was an abusive alcoholic, my mother was an abusive alcoholic. No gender difference their huh

Women can be abusive both physically and psychologically too. Wasnt Victoria Climbes main carer her Aunt?

Please DO NOT be sexist and accept both genders do right and wrong.

Years ago Erin Pizzey, the founder of Womens Aid rejected that women were more domestically abusive than men.
DV is not overwhelmingling perpurtrated by men on women, stats are roughly equivilant.

DV is popularly portrayed as solely a male on female issue. This is disingenous to women AND men.

Violence is wrong, regardless of who instigates it. Although female on male DV is less frequent, female on male DV does occur. About 1 in 6 men will experience DV. There is also the issue that most men will be reluctant to report DV, thus leading to under-reporting.

To quote from some research on DV being done at leicester university....

"Domestic violence is a disturbing social problem in the U.K that occurs in all levels of intimate partner relationships, including dating, cohabiting and married couples. According to the Home Office Research Study 191 in January 1999 there were about 6.6 million incidents of domestic physical assault (3.29 million involving women victims and 3.25 million male victims), with 2.9 million incidents resulting in injury (1.86 million women and 1.0 million men). Although women tended to be more harmed or frightened by domestic violence, one third of those injured and one quarter of which were chronic (repeated) victims were men."

The NSPCC itself states that equal numbers of children are killed by their mothers and fathers....

I don't know why this becomes a gender issue, violence is wrong, regardless of who instigates it.

Why am I a member of FNF?

... because FNF is a national charity that promotes shared parenting and puts the child's relationship with both parents first....

FNF has nothing to do with F4J, they are two totally different organisations, F4J is a protest group, FNF is a national charity.

In fact about 1 quarter of FNFs membership is female...

dittany, do you have an agenda?

Are you a member of womens aid or other pressure groups?

Womens aid are a pressure group who have consistently told porkies regarding female on male DV, especially their infamous "29 children killed by fathers" report which was comprehensively demolished by LJ Ward.

here's a tip - look up erin pizzey on wikipedia.

I'm sorry, but womens aid keep spinning the line that DV is solely a female on male issue, whilst ignoring that female on male DV occurs in a not insubstantial proportion of cases.

I wouldn't have any truck with anyone who is violent to children, male or female.

You've missed the point regarding FNF - they're not a father's rights organisation, they are a charity dedicated to promoting a child's right to have a meaningful relationship with both parents post-separation and would never condone abuse/violence to children under any circumstances.

Dittany from your posts you have exposed yourself as a sexist imo

`I don't know why a woman would deny that domestic violence is almost an overwhelmingly male on female crime.'

Erm, that would be statistics. Although we could be arguing semantics here; the figures quoted above amount to 50.4% DV assaults on women, compared to 49.6% on men.

Perhaps this is what you mean by overwhelming?