Fathers 4 Justice

[dolallylass]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it galling that these fathers are scaling building and yet some dads can not get out of their commitment to their kids quick enough??

Where is Mothers 4 Justice crusading for more contact??

I am so sick of doing it all and having to take what my xh can offer graciously (well as graciously as I can muster!!) and then listening to how fathers need more rights. I know there are some fantastic fathers (my neighbour is one) but there are many fathers who leave, drop responsibility and then try and ask for gratitude for the little they do!!

Seriously is there a Mothers 4 Justice or are we all too bl**dy busy??

whilst not agreeing with Xenia's over-the-top mehtods of dealing with parents who do not act in their child's best interests, I do feel I need to comment.

Given that Xenia is commenting on the withdrawal of contact for no good reason, I think in a way she is looking at it from the vew of the children.

My step children have been immnesely damaged by being left with their primary carer. She has made them believe that their father is not interested, that he does not pay enough maintenance,and that now he has more children, that he loves them more and spends more money on them. Just how is that in the best interests of the children?

They are now two fairly insecure teenagers, with not much of a clue as to how to go about forming meaningful relationships. They do not know how to trust people, as they know she has been lying (mental block - sp?) to them for years, and having to face up to that is one of the hardest things they may ever have to do. They are questoining a lot of their lives at the moment, because they are finding out that what mum said happened, and what actually happened are not the same thing.

The point that xenia seems to be making is that no, it is not always better for the children to remain with their primary carer, if that primay carer cannot go about things in a mature and responsible way.

Dh is a decent man who only wants the best for his children. But he has been forced to put them through stressful times such as court cases, which have always been blamed on him rather than blamed on his ex for refusing rightful contact in the first place, as he simply does not agree (and I am with him on this one) that it would be best fo rhis children if he were to disappear like his ex wants him to.

No Dittany he isnt going anywhere at the moment. He hasnt done anything at all since last autumn but every time he does my ds knows I do something about it. She tries not to make him cross which is sad but she is scared of his moods and the fact that she cant predict what may happen.

I wont stop a child who wants to see her father from seeing him, it would be wrong. Everyone has discussed this with her and she remains adamant in her wish to see him and not at a contact centre or supervised. I know she would tell me when anything went wrong and as I said twice she has immediately asked to be taken home when he lost his temper and shouted and he bought her straight back.

It does mean that contact days are a nightmare for me and I stay in contact all day but I respect her views.

silverfrog that is very wrong and as I have said if there was a better conciliation service which included counselling it might not have happened.

I think it is a mute point about primary carers and one way is not always the best way. For some families one solution will work and for others it wont. The problem with any system is it is not geared towards individual solutions and differences.

agree, glitterfairy, that a one-size fits all solution is not best.

I would like to say that I admire what oyu are doing for your dd. It must be hugely difficult for you. My parents divorced, and my father was at first the absent type, and then the present but agressive type, and I too opted to see him, for a while.

He was my father, purely and simply. It sounds as htough you have a very strong relationship with your dd, and I hope that she gets what she wants from her relationship with her father.

Thanks silverfrog

I know others think it wrong but I would be a hypocrite if I said I respected my children's views only when they suited mine.

I dont know what the future will bring but know that not seeing their dad does sometimes present problems and sadness for my other to despite it being their choice.

All the kids are aware of his limitations and yet he is their dad which doesnt mean he has any rights imo but does mean they have a right to a relationship with him if that is what they want.

As I said I obey the letter of the law and keep him informed about their education and health by email. I include him as much as I can (even though he doesnt pay a bean) by email as I wont see or speak to him but I have set very clear boundaries to protect myself as he is violent towards me.

I would hate to get bitter about it all.

Glitterfairy-I think that youhave an absolutely amazing attitude towards your child's contact. Your children will respect you for ever for the way you have handled this issue for them.

But loads of mothers a enot primary carers and some who do spend more time with their children are not very good at it and some fathers come home to depressed mothers who hav done nothing all day and father takes over children and does all housework in the evenings and all childcare at weekends. I feel particularly sorry for those men who are often very close to their families but simply because mother is a housewife she gets to keep the children and house yet she was always very lazy or ill or bad with children anyway. In other words there is no assessment done of who is the best parent. And judges live in UK circa 1880 where men do nothing except earn.

1 in 5 women earn more than their man. 250,000 men are house husbands.

I am not down on mothers. I am up on fathers and absolutely disgusted with how the country's legal system treats them after divorce.

Some other countries have a 50/50 default position particularly where most women work and tehre is no basis for saying any child will suffer if half the week is spent with the father.

dittany, are you really denying that it is possible, in some cases that the father is the better parent?

denying that there are any depressed mothers, whose husbands pick up the slack form time to time?

denying that there are any house husbands?

have you read any of my posts on this thread at all? particularly my last post, where I set out exactly how much good my step-children's mother has done them (and sadly, that's not even the half of it)

Xenia may be being a little outrageous about her claims, but oyu are being equally ridiculaous by suggesting that it is not possible at all.

I think the hope for the future is more and more couples - both work and both arrange child care, that more courts are aware that men and women can look after children well, that there is at least some hope of change with the new CSA proposals and changes (I think there's a bill in parliament). Also modern means of communication mean it is harder for awful mothers to stop their children contacting their father. My twins at 7 would email their father. They have internet access at school even which a recalcitrant mother intent on thwarting contact could not control and attitudes are changing so there is a bit of hope for fathers in the future but it's been a long time coming and there is much else that could be done

just quickly, re your last point - should I get dh to tell you about his ex, then? would you believe it then? PMSL.

Of course there is nothing I can do to convince you about anyhitng, we do not know each other, but I would like to assure oyu that I am not at all biased, and definitely not motivated by spite.

I am myself the product of a broken home, and I am all too aware of how children can be used by their parents.

I disagree with a lot of dh's ex's parenting methods,and I will certainly not be treating my children how she has treated hers. But spite? what on earth do I have to be spiteful about? I do not resent my stepchildren, nor do i resent the maintenance dh pays, or the school, fees, or the spousal maintenance. I also do not resent any time he spends with his children (am currently browsing for a cottage for him to go on holiday with them this summer, minus me and the dds, at my instigation).

I can only repeat that i am in no way motivated by spite. You will, no doubt carry on disbelieving that.

HEr parenting methods do actually have a bearing on a lot of htings that happen in my house too, you know. we may not see dh's children as often as we should, but they do come here sometimes. So yes, i do get an opinion, as does dh. merely on what happens here, and the differences between our methods, but it does all affect evereybody. They are also dh's children - so i assume his opinion is worth something in your world? Her methods as they impact on my children (in a watered down, knock-on "mum says it's ok, so I can do this" kind of way)are definitely something to do with me.

and, for the record, she does have opinions about my parenting, which she shares frequently with her children (and no they are not complimentary - one of them is that I have caused my dd's autism) and again, that has a knock on affect, and is something I disagree with (her sharing htis with my step-children, not her having opinions). Oh whoops, i appear to be "slagging her off" again. Better stop that. I am aware that nobody is perfect, and have never claimed that anyone is.

Yes, dh left her and the children, if you want to put it that way, in that he is the one who physically left the house and went to live elsewhere. short of insisting on sharing a house when the marriage has broken down (surely not advisable) or asking her to leave (which no doubt you would have vilified him for if that had been the case) I'm not sure what else you think should have happened? There was no-one else involved, if that is what oyu are implying. Their marriage was not working, they tried very hard, both of them, but they agreed that it was best if they split.

Dh got his new family a long time after he and his ex split up, and I have never said that his children should not have any feelings about it.

It is often hard for all family members when divorce/split up happens. The way things are handled by all sides matters.

Stepmums have a really hard time and research on the subject shows that getting a good relationship with step children is difficult at best.

My Xs gf is loathed by my kids and frankly that is mostly down to her behaviour and that of my X and also the way she was introduced against their wishes where even the court ruled against them seeing her and told him to slow down.

But I have to confess that some of it may indeed be my attitude in the beginning partly because I was really hurting on all fronts but also because I was angry about their behaviour and couldnt always hide it in front of the children.

My kids know that is not the case now but nothing has really changed.

I also think that whatever his bad behaviour I have never been an angel myself and like many men he had his relationship channelled through me. When we were no longer together he found it hard to create a new relationship with the kids and mistakenly thought that using is gf would help.

It is never cut and dried no matter how bad one side is and my X is very bad but I cannot fail to have influenced my kids because I am bringing them up and because they saw my pain.

The funny thing is, i do have a very good relatoinship with my stepchildren, as does dh. It has been a long hard road, but hopefully, as they get older, we are coming ot the end of the total control that dh's ex has exerted over them (not spite, dittany, just fact).

I do understand how it must be hard to see your ex having a new relationship (although, surely, 8 years don the line, as it was in my case,and a few partners along, on both sides, it gets a little easier? I am happy to be corrected on this). I know htat dh's ex struggled with the fact that we had children. She would ideally have had more children, I think, but it has not worked out that way for her. Given that I have had fertility issues, and thought for a while that dd1 would be my only child, I think I understand a little of her pain there, and it is a hard one.

I do agree, glitterfairy, that it is never cut and dried. It is back to the "one size doesn't fit all" scenario. People are all different,and so they naturally bring different things to a relationship, and also take differnt things away.

I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing that oyur children saw your pain. We cannot hide emotions form our children, and most things are better talked baout than not.

I think dsd's mum's parenting methods ARE something to do with me, because they have an impact on my household. There are things she is allowed to do and say at home that I wouldn't allow dd to. So when she does them here what do we do? One rule for dsd and one for dd? Expect dsd to adapt to our rules? If I say we have different rules here does it imply to her that her mum is wrong or vice versa.

It's a difficult one to negotiate your way through and I guess only time will tell whether we have done a good enough job. I hope so.

Oh and Glitterfairy I think you are an amazing woman with incredible insight. I wish you all the love in the world .

It's possible to be objective about different rules though, say something self deprecating like - I know lots of people dont' have the same rules we have here and your mother may well be right to do things differently but this is the rule here rather than saying one or other of you is wrong.

Indeed, Xenia, it is and we tend to do that most of the time, but there are occasions where it just doesn't fit.

For eg dsd's mum has had her trying ridiculous diets since she was about 12. Dsd is not particularly overweight, a little curved around the edges - nothing to worry about as long as she has a healthy attitude to food and exercise.

I do not agree with this, and find it hard to get food on the table that we can all eat (my dds are multiple food intolerant on top of all that) and also do not really want mention of faddy diets in front of my dds. It is hard to use the "we don't have the same rules here" line, as dsd has been banned from eatig certain foodstuffs, and is worried about how her mother will react...

i always really liked xp's gf,so did the dc.she was never bitter,or jealous or anything like that.in fact,i once asked her(in front of xp)what the hell she was doing with him when she could do so much better.

i would like to think she's dumped him now.

silverfrog-ok,putting a 12 year old on a weight loss diet(unless advised by a medical professional) is pretty fucked up..

sadly,there are so many people out there spouting bull about their ex's being bitches/bastards that those among us who are genuine often arent believed

Dittany sorry if I missed something but...
how old are your kids and how do you arrange their childcare?