Living in France, feeling I will never ever fit in here. All because of a school trip.

[Greythorne]

we live in France. DH is French.

Kids go to local school. I find I have to take a big gulp and accept the "culture clash" about tonnes of things and I am willing to do so because the kids are half French and hey, we live here, so I have to.

But tonight i feel near tears because we have just got a letter home from school to say there is a school trip for DD1 in a few weeks, just before the end of the school year. Dd1 is 5 years 5 months and in the equivalent of Year Reception.

The school is organising a trip for 5 days to a riding stables about 60 miles away. 5 days. 4 nights.

I just don't feel she is ready for this. I just feel I am not ready for this. I am just sick and tired of always feeling out if step with my community, with the school, with the people who should be my peers.

I mentioned my concerns to another mum, who just laughed it off and said, "tu sais, il faut couper le cordon un jour!" (you know, one day you have to cut the cord).

The trip is not mandatory but the teacher is putting pressure on parents to let their kids attend as it will be the culmination of a whole project about farms, horses, whatever.

I am just so demoralised. I try and I try to fit in here but this is just too much. I have read so many threads on MN about school trips / scout trips / what have you and I tend to agree with the posters who say: let them go, let them spread their wings, they will be safe.

But never have I seen a trip for 5 days at 5 years old.

I feel sick.

Just say no. Who cares? Honestly? I bet you're not the only one. I certainly wouldn't let my 5 year old go for 4 nights. She wouldn't want to.

Say no - my Mum is French and she would never have let me go! Even when I was older she managed to wangle her way onto trips as a helper!!

As parents we often do things that raise other peoples eyebrows, but better that than being pressured to go against your instinct

And my DS is the same age and there is no way he is ready to go for that long!

Don't send her if you are not comfortable with it. Just don't.

We live in Monaco where culture & education system is French but 80% of the population isn't. This is a big problem friends have had here. Typically, if 4-5 families refuse to send their kids on these trips, they are not done. For this reason, my friends who refused saw a lot of pressure from French mums, and were then shouted at when the trip got cancelled.

I'm with you on this - it's insanity. Taking 5 year olds on a 5 day trip, presumably hours away, too.

I know exactly how you feel. I am in France too, and am widely regarded as being totally potty for the way I treat my dc. I couldn't give a damn.

The reality is that when you look around you in France you do not see an enormous number of super confident, well adapted adults with no issues whatsoever.

So the way they are doing it is obviously not the perfect panacea that they seem to think it is sometimes.

Stick to your guns. When your children grow up, if they ask you why you did so and so, do you really want to tell them it's because you were pressured into it by society? YOU are their mother and must bring them up in a way that works for YOU.

And fuck everyone else.

I don't really have any advice but I just wanted to respond to your post. I understand about living in DH's country of origin. We are in Sweden. I am gradually adjusting to language and customs but some things to do with the kids and their upbringing are just so rooted in our individual culture and it's not easy to explain to others why I might want to do things differently. I'm sure rationally you know your DC will be okay, and indeed il faut couper le cordon, but it probably feels quite tough and all too soon.
You're not an outsider, you deserve to be there. You are strong, spirited and generous for being open-minded and big hearted enough to bring your children up in this environment and I'm sure you have their best interests at heart. Take some time, try and think if you can see some things that might be positive in this trip. Ask yourself if you trust the school to take good care. Talk to your DC about whether they would like to go and why. If, after some good and calm though you decide you don't think it's right then say no. It's not compulsory. Stand firm for the kind of parenting you are practising at home, and that which your DC knows and understands. Don't let yourself feel bullied, but try to think it through when you're a bit less emotional.
Hope you can decide what's right for you.

What everyone else has said. Yes, the DCs are half French but they're also half British. You have every right to say "yes, I'll try to fit in and I'll try to change my mindset but I have a tipping point and this is it". It works both ways.

Hi, we are in Switzerland. None of us are Swiss and have no wish to be. I also struggle with the "independance" kids are given. Mainly as this usually means the stronger ones dominating the less assertive ones. Anyhow what I'm trying to say is go with your instincts. I certainly wouldn't let my reception age child go on a trip like that. He still likes to hold my hand and made up stories. Stick to your position. Good luck.

I live in france with french dh too. I think these trips are much too young and there is a lot of pressure to attend ie; if one family says no the trip will be cancelled (I've never understood why this should be the case). I am not for sending five year olds away for a week but have send my 9 year olds and they have loved it and were ready to go. Does your daughter want to go? The only issue I might have is if she really wants to go and feels left out. Otherwise follow your instincts. Good luck xx

id agree with the above - stick to your guns. We have cubs (aged 8-10) who find it traumatic being away from home for a weekend. At 5, I think a child would be very distressed. SO your choice is to have a child traumatised by being away from home too early, vs some french ladies tutting. Let them tut I say!

Usual for Belgium is 2 or 3 nights for the 4 to 6 year olds, then 4 or 5 nights for the 6 to 8 year olds. When our daughter went aged 4, it was for 2 nights. There was a meeting, the children are about 40% non Belgian of many nationalities, ironically it was the Belgian mums at the meeting before the residential who seemed the most nervous, it really really surprised me, the only children NOT to go on that 2 night trip for the 4 year olds were Belgians! There is an easy way out, arrange your own holiday to "co-incide" with the school's trip, that seemed to be what many of the Belgian children's parents did. That way your child will only miss out on being with school friends, you could even do something similar to what the other children will be doing.

I agree with the others that if this is something you feel that strongly about maybe this is one of the times you should hold out for your own culture.

We used to live in France, left when DS1 was 6 but he never had any overnight trips. We are now in Luxembourg and the kids go to a school for children of EU staff - very interesting as the French section takes them away for a few nights from the age of 4 whereas in the English section many of us were quite uncomfortable with the idea of our 6-year-olds going away for just one night. I went on the 2-night trip for the 7-year-olds as a parent helper owing to DS1's medical issues, and by then the kids all seemed fine and ready for it.

So it really is a matter of cultural differences, and if your culture means you don't feel ok about this, then don't do it. You sound like you're doing a great job in terms of integration so don't sweat it if this one area is a no-go for you at the moment. And probably in another year or two you'll be fine with it once you feel your daughter is ready.

Any chance you could go along as a parent helper? When DS1 was at maternelle I found there were a few aspects I was uncomfortable about (eg didn't want him to do full days at age 3) so I was always very upbeat and just explained that I came from a different culture where this didn't happen and so I wasn't used to it etc and tried to find some kind of compromise - just thinking you could adopt that kind of line as a reason for coming along as a helper.

Totally relate to what you are saying about feeling out of step... will never forget first day of maternelle when 30 crying 3-year-olds had to be peeled off their parents - I was quite traumatised, as was DS1, but one of the other mums laughed it off saying 'on est tous passés par là' - I felt like saying 'well, no, actually I didn't have to go through this because I come from a country with a much gentler, more civilised system where they start at 5, on their birthday, so there is only one new child at a time and I think it's much better that way'. But that's life in another country really and you just have to work out where your boundaries are.

I wouldn´t let ds1 (5) go. we had something similar this year as they were all due a 2 day 1 night trip and i even had huge reservations about that. It just seems totally unnecessary so young, ds has not even slept at a friend´s house, or with his cousins, yet. in the event we decided that if the trip went ahead we would send him because he was very keen, there seemed to be quite a lot of pressure i.e. teacher bigging it up in class etc, but we didn´t return the indication of interest slip. in the end it was cancelled for lack of support and i breathed a sigh of relief.

5 days would not even have been discussed no matter how much he wanted to go, and I think you have to just not care what other people think, though i know it is hard. maybe do what was suggested up thread and just say "oh what a shame we have xxxx planned that weekend and we absolutely can´t reschedule".

My son didn't go on his school trip in yr 5, because he hated the one in yr 4. So I didn't send him despite huge pressure to do so. He was more than ready at yr 6 and wanted to go.
Personally I think 5 is too young and which teachers would want to take 5 yr olds for 5 days??
I help with Beavers 5-7yr, one night is enough for them....and us!!!

If it were me and if I thought the whole trip would be cancelled if I refused to send my DD, then I suspect that I would agree to the trip.

Of course, the night before the trip, I think I might well discover that my DD had a very high temperature and might indeed have to pull out at the very last minute.

I think my DCs might be prone to high temperatures until they were at least 7.

stillsquiffy
:)

Thanks for all the replies. I know that it's not mandatory and I actually don't care too much about saying DD won't be attending.

It's more the sense that no matter how long I live here, I will never, ever fit in :(

I will always be the oddball foreigner and nobody will ever "get" me.

Greythorne, don't be sad. This isn't about your failure. This is just a weird thing the school is doing that you don't have to do. Don't let it persuade you that you will never fit in and will always feel an outsider and all that.

I have spent a lot of time living abroad in French speaking countries (pre DCs) and there's a lot to like. But it doesn't make you French or make you want to do everything their way.

It sounds like you need a little confidence boost right now. Perhaps an afternoon of playing Beatles songs with the DCs and teaching them the joys of chip butties. Then you might be able to reconnect with the joy of a dual heritage for them and feel a bit more liberated to enjoy it yourself more.

Greythorne I do get that. I never managed to say a humorous thing in all my years living abroad. If it wasn't the language getting in my way, it was my just being too British. I prescribe you an afternoon of watching blackadder and eating hobnobs.

Greythorne - Whereabouts are you, if you don't mind me asking?

You will - you just need to find the right friends!
My Mum has been in the UK for 40 years and has some very good friends.

And she says the biggest thing that helped her with her homesickness was to take the rose tinted glasses off. She went back to visit her family one year and she realised that she would never want to move back! Whenever people wax lyrical about having an ideal life by moving to France she is always happy to shatter their illusions!!!

Are you in a city?

No way. No freaking way (okay DS is 1).

If fitting in means caving to peer pressure then why would you want? Can you find some other oddball foreigners? My fellow oddball has been a lifesaver here and I hope I find a new one when we move.

Also IMO people who totally adapt to their adopted culture were never very comfortable in their own...most people will always have something that grates.

And I've never been humourous either.

I got a lovely phonecall totally out of the blue from an English lady who had 'heard of me' (sounds v ominous) through the neighbourhood grapevine. She is a total star, and invited me out for wine and a chat. Due to us having small kids, we don't meet as often as I'd like, but that hand of friendship she extended was sooooo welcome. Despite the lovely friends and neighbours we have, I don't yet feel that this is home, even though I'm intent on staying for the long haul. I feel just the same, that most people don't really know ME. Just the version of me that survives the translation. And with many things there's so much background to explain before I even start, that I don't always bother. But even so, my friends out here have been my salvation. Taking me out of my kitchen, getting me active, getting me talking, getting me laughing, sharing things etc. We help each other and they are generally very patient as I mangle their language. Do you have 'girlfriends' there that you can have a good laugh, a night out with, or go shopping together and forget your troubles for a few hours while DH holds the fort at home?

Are there other reasons that you are homesick though? Would a holiday back to the UK help? Or show you what you're glad to be away from? Can you source any typically English foods, like pork pies or salt & vinegar crisps (or whatever you fancy?) Have you had a proper cup of tea recently or are you down to the Lipton-type cr*p? Food plays a big part in helping me feel good about myself and I hoard UK type comfort foods that I can break out in an emergency. Cadbury's chocolate is sacred in this house and is not to be wasted on children, for example. Do you have any English friends where you are? Not that you HAVE to, but they can sometimes be less effort, if you're feeling a bit fragile. Maybe through MN you can find other people not too far away?

I totally get how you feel. Are you able to speak to your DH about it? Does he understand? In my worst moments of feeling iscolated here, I rage at DH that he didn't/wouldn't do the same for me (ie. move abroad). He has got the plot on that one, and at the weekend when we were just having a quiet moment he said 'thank-you for moving here'. It means a lot if you have the appreciation of what it is that you have done (and maybe even saccrificed) for the good of your whole family (something we mums do a lot of). Are your family able to visit you often? Is that something that would help? I don't mean to sound like a doom and gloom monster, but do you have the feeling that you could leave France if it really wasn't working out for you? I don't think I would want to put my family through an international move again (our 'journey' here was arduous to say the least) and I personally wouldn't want to go and live in the UK, but I do know that if I really, really had to go that DH would come with me and just knowing that is one of the reasons that I don't want to (does that make sense? It makes me feel less trapped...)

Sending you lots of hugs and I hope that you'll find something that works for you soon

Just say No. They already think you are different so what do you care.
I refused to let my then 11 year old go on a week long camping trip with the school, it was 8 hours drive away and I knew he'd hate it, not eat anything and I'd get a call to come get him at some point. So I followed my Mom instincts and said No.
My friend was talked into it by the teacher and then had to drive to get her 11 year old on day two.
Son #2 I knew would thrive and love every minute of it, he went and had the best time.
Follow your gut, if she isn't ready, she isn't ready, raise your children your way, no matter where you live.

My DD3 went away last year (when she was 4) on a 5 day trip. She loved it, but she had her elder sister with her which helped.

There were other (French) children in her year who didn't go though.

As for parent helpers, my school don't allow parents as it isn't fair for one child to have their mother and not the others. They take helpers but they are normally grandparents or parents of children who have left the school.

OP don't think this is all about your culture, it is about you as an individual. You know what is best for your child.

My MIL is French and did many awful things to her kids that I think bordered on neglect if not actual abuse, because "that's the way we do it". They weren't even brought up in France!!!! Follow your instincts and do what is best for YOUR kids.