Living in France, feeling I will never ever fit in here. All because of a school trip.

[Greythorne]

we live in France. DH is French.

Kids go to local school. I find I have to take a big gulp and accept the "culture clash" about tonnes of things and I am willing to do so because the kids are half French and hey, we live here, so I have to.

But tonight i feel near tears because we have just got a letter home from school to say there is a school trip for DD1 in a few weeks, just before the end of the school year. Dd1 is 5 years 5 months and in the equivalent of Year Reception.

The school is organising a trip for 5 days to a riding stables about 60 miles away. 5 days. 4 nights.

I just don't feel she is ready for this. I just feel I am not ready for this. I am just sick and tired of always feeling out if step with my community, with the school, with the people who should be my peers.

I mentioned my concerns to another mum, who just laughed it off and said, "tu sais, il faut couper le cordon un jour!" (you know, one day you have to cut the cord).

The trip is not mandatory but the teacher is putting pressure on parents to let their kids attend as it will be the culmination of a whole project about farms, horses, whatever.

I am just so demoralised. I try and I try to fit in here but this is just too much. I have read so many threads on MN about school trips / scout trips / what have you and I tend to agree with the posters who say: let them go, let them spread their wings, they will be safe.

But never have I seen a trip for 5 days at 5 years old.

I feel sick.

dikkertjedap - maybe you haven't heard, but there's this thing called globalisation going on? It means that different values and ideas come together, and the best ones win. No more having to integrate into provincial mindsets etc. You should look out for it!

I know that Bonsoir. Still wonder if the reasons as to why there are such schools around the world stem from similar ideals.
I suppose French state school abroad were set up when France had colonies to form the children of people working there? Quite surprised they still have the money to fund them!

By Bonsoir's reckoning, we should all be eating McDonald's and listening to Justin Bieber with all of us conforming to the 'winning' culture of our globalised world....

Bonsoir I am not sure which definition you use for globalisation but it is certainly not one I am familiar with!

Furthermore, to think that your values are so superior that the French have no choice except to adopt them is clearly one big joke. The French seem to be doing very well, thank you very much. I also have little doubt that the quality of life on the Continent tend to be higher than here in the UK. That doesn't mean that there are no problems on the Continent, but to think that is is all fine and dandy in the UK is rather naive really.

Its whole premise is wildly different to the Anglo-Saxon mindset - it is about instruction
lol I can tell you that what is happening at school is shaping the way my dcs are thinking.
from learning to queue to the importance of religion (still taught in state schools).
And all the different values that pervades the society as a whole are found in school and the way its taught (and the subjects taught).

As for globalization, you will excuse me if I don't buy into 'we should all the be same, eat the and think the same'.

Cote I do stand to my comment re productivity. The factory in the north of France opened when I was going out of school as an engineer. I think I have quite a good idea of what has happened at the time.
And the productivity of french workers, like it or not, was a deciding factor (even if it wasn't the only one, I am not that stupid!).

And it is very clear that the way people are working in France and in the UK is vastly different too. I am still [shocked] by the short hours people are doing here for example. Or by the fact that it is OK to leave work at 4.00 because 'you've done your hours' even if something important needs doing.

dikkertje, I can understand what you're saying. Before Sweden I lived in Belgium and many times wanted to scream when ex-pats labelled any kind of rudeness or ineptitude they came accross as 'so Belgian'. I also wanted to say 'well f off home then'.

For the record, I fitted in very well in Belgium, and was proud of my adopted country, with all its flaws.

Right now I'm new to Sweden and doing my best to fit in here. I am determined that I will. I chose to come here and my kids (and DH) are having a fantastic time but that doesn't mean that it's not difficult, overwhelming and confusing at times.

They have very good cake though. That makes up for a great deal. Just don't get me started on how difficult it is to find good sausages and bacon

"I do stand to my comment re productivity"

You can "stand to" [sic] wherever you want. It is still not going to change the fact that workers' high output/hour means nada when said workers work 15-20% less hours than everyone else.

"I have quite a good idea of what has happened at the time. And the productivity of french workers was a deciding factor "

I'm sure that is the propaganda that you were told: We are oh so productive that Toyota is opening a factory here

In any case, what are you saying? French education system turns people into efficient automatons who then have high output/hour as factory workers. Wow, why didn't you say so?

"the way people are working in France and in the UK is vastly different too. I am still [shocked] by the short hours people are doing here for example"

France had a 35-hour work week for most of the past decade and is apparently going back to it now under Hollande's directives. How do you figure that people in the UK do "short hours"?

I do know how French companies "work" - they give you an appointment at 12:00, they don't show up, you call them at 15:00 and ask where they are, they say "Oh yeah, we are busy, we won't come today". Wth Or they come, say they will send you a devis (quote), then they never call you again. You book a taxi to pick you up at 6 AM to go to the airport, he shows up at 7:15 AM and says his alarm rang but he just turned it off and went back to sleep

I would describe the general attitude of the French commerçant to his customers as indifference bordering on contempt. It is like they don't want to work.

The French have a very successful nuclear industry and do very well in a wide range of other export areas. The UK basically got financial services and that is it. Everything else has been killed off here. Not even that long ago, the UK had a brilliant film industry - all gone now.

In terms of productivit, what matters is total factor productivity. The French economic system is capital intensive, so they are far less dependent on labour.

Shorter working hours have nothing to do with productivity levels. The Dutch have one of the highest productivity levels but far shorter working hours than the UK. My experience in the UK is that people spend lots of time in offices because they don't want to go home before their boss ... this does not mean they are more productive (they might be on Mumsnet and other websites etc for hours rather than work). It is well known that labour productivity in the UK is very poor, part of this is due to poor management, part due to lack of capital investment.

It is all a matter of choice. The French have always been open about industrial policy. This does not mean that the UK does not favour UK businesses over others but they achieve this in different ways.

Arguably the French elite comes from top schools with rigorous selection. Unfortunately, in the UK it seems more and more a case of people buying themselves a way to the top.

Greythorne, I just wanted to say that I think the line about "if your DC doesn't go the trip won't take place" is a daft attempt to get everyone to go along with the idea. DS1 has been on 2 such trips and although we were fed that line not all the pupils went, because one or two just couldn't afford it. (It cost 50 euros IIRC.)

DS1 went on one trip at the age of 5 in MS (because he was in a mixed MS/GS class) and another when he was 6 in GS. Both were 3 days & 2 nights long, involving a 2hr coach trip and brilliant activities in the Alpes de Haute Provence. He had a great time and still looks at the photos with pleasure.

I agree that 5 days and nights seems long for your DD's age. If she isn't happy, find some excuse for her not to attend; I doubt the whole thing will be cancelled because of it.

I found similar attitudes in small companies (plumbers, carpenters, cleaning agencies etc) in SW England and to a lesser extent here in Milan, so not just a prerogative of the French.
I have no idea of the general work ethic of French people though

Auld hello! Haven't seen you in ages,

Hi Franca!
Haven't been around for a while, life has been tricky.
I think of you every time I have a glass of those weird fizzy crystals...

!!!!

Sorry to hear it's been tricky, I hope you are all right

The fizzy crystals keep me going when times are rough!

Good to hear the fizzy crystals have finally found a purpose! I hope all goes well Auld.

OP agree that you should do whatever you and your dc feel comfortable with and dont feel pressurised into doing anything you dont want to. Also wanted to add that you should try not to feel as if you have to fit in 100% to feel like you belong. I am in italy, italian dp and ds and i have accepted the fact that i will always be the foreigner but it doesnt matter, I am still integrated. I have a great group of friends who are fellow non italians married to italians who get that part of me that will never be italian. I also have some great italian friends who get that large part of me that loves it here. i dont think you have to embrace every part of your adopted country to integrate and i still make my choices re parenting based on what works for us as a family as i would do were i in the uk. There are plenty of things my friends in the uk choose for their dc that i wouldnt do. I dont think that is because they are British and in the uk, its just different outlooks. Good luck!

dikkertje, there are many things I like about Belgium and am not complaining about the Belgians. I have Belgian friends whom I like spending time with, they are generally not as fun as the Brits I know (and I don't drink so it's not because I want to do out binge drinking). As I also said, my Belgian friends complain about the Belgian school system more than my British friends do.

I don't see though why I don't have the right to complain about the Belgian school system (and about drivers in Brussels and the very high taxes/social security) when my Belgian friends are also complaining about the same things. Do I have less of a right to do that just because I'm not Belgian?

Anyway, I agree with BananaGio, op.

dikkertje, if you want something to read re the French education system, you could always read the book I linked to above.

Cote you are reacting as if I had never lived in France or do not have any experience in that whatsoever .

I have worked there (in the manufacturing industry as you have gathered) and worked with french customer for british companies for years. I think I have qute a nice insight as to what is happening.

What you are referring to is what is happening with plumbers etc... I found it very similar to what is happening in the UK (My parents who now live in the Uk too would actually argue it's much worse here but tbh I would not be able to comment on that).
Put someone in a company and it's a totally different matter. I have worked with customers and dealing with complains. The expectation is that you are dropping everything right now to solve their problem and they actually do that in their own company. I have never seen anyone doing that in the UK, even though I have worked in quite a few companies for the automotive industry (who has very expectations re reactivity).

The 35 hours is a myth as soon as you go the shopfloor level. people there work much much longer hours and are expected to do so There is now a day to 'cover' that but in reality, they are still nowhere near the 35hours unlike the UK).
Most of my friends who are still France will tell me they are lucky to be able to pick up their dcs at 7.00pm from childminder (nounou). Or they are at home for 7.00pm but need to leave home(with dcs) at 7.00am. And it's not due commuting as it can be the case in Paris for example.
I have never seen that here.

TBH I am uneasy by some of the response here where people seem to think that I have no idea about what is happening in my home country because ... I am french so I can't see it? Perhaps I have an insight that a foreigner doesn't have I dunno.

www.facebook.com/pages/On-ach%C3%A8ve-bien-les-%C3%A9coliers/126557890714184 Also for dikkertje if she's interested.

Hi OP, I have not read all of the above discussion but I am hoping you have been able to come to a decision. I don't know if it has been suggested but if you have no other children and can easily leave DH to fend for himself you could volunteer to accompany the trip. They are usually happy to accept an extra pair of hands.

Personally I would have said no, with a child that young (mine were very clingy at that age and even the more independent one would have had a hard time). Also, I have been around French pony clubs a lot and they are not quite as safety-conscious as I would like to see (I have not seen really dangerous situations, I must add, but neither have I seen much instilling of that very crucial horse-sense that young children need to take on board).

Best of luck and I hope you are feeling better (I know you can have moments like this, but hopefully other happier moments compensate)!

In the Uk, you have people who want children to have more homework. Some people actually chose private education for that reason (and they learn useful things like latin etc...).
I also know people here who advocate 'lotus birthing' (where you keep the placenta attached to the baby until it drops). It can get quite a lot of followers too on FB.

In either case, it doesn't mean the idea is mainstream.

Franca re English International schools, they are meant for people who move a lot, when you move your family every 3-4 years you cant expect your children to learn new language and adapt to a different school system each time.

And if you did it would be quite disruptive to their long term education.

(there are probably people who use them so their dc dont have to mix with the locals too)

Now you are really talking out of your , NotSureICanCarryOn. The problems with French schools are super mainstream conversation. We regularly receive the über mainstream newsletters of the main national Parents Assocations - which provide a good synthesis of the issues described on this thread.

Nice....