Living in France, feeling I will never ever fit in here. All because of a school trip.

[Greythorne]

we live in France. DH is French.

Kids go to local school. I find I have to take a big gulp and accept the "culture clash" about tonnes of things and I am willing to do so because the kids are half French and hey, we live here, so I have to.

But tonight i feel near tears because we have just got a letter home from school to say there is a school trip for DD1 in a few weeks, just before the end of the school year. Dd1 is 5 years 5 months and in the equivalent of Year Reception.

The school is organising a trip for 5 days to a riding stables about 60 miles away. 5 days. 4 nights.

I just don't feel she is ready for this. I just feel I am not ready for this. I am just sick and tired of always feeling out if step with my community, with the school, with the people who should be my peers.

I mentioned my concerns to another mum, who just laughed it off and said, "tu sais, il faut couper le cordon un jour!" (you know, one day you have to cut the cord).

The trip is not mandatory but the teacher is putting pressure on parents to let their kids attend as it will be the culmination of a whole project about farms, horses, whatever.

I am just so demoralised. I try and I try to fit in here but this is just too much. I have read so many threads on MN about school trips / scout trips / what have you and I tend to agree with the posters who say: let them go, let them spread their wings, they will be safe.

But never have I seen a trip for 5 days at 5 years old.

I feel sick.

Cote, if you link these general traits to a whole education system is a different story than linking them to just 5 days away.

I still don't agree that offering a residential trip to 5 yrs old is such a bad idea, unless of course French teachers are evil monsters.

I would also be very careful to do that sort of generalization based on the assumption that 'forced' separation is bad for the child.

Not all cultures agree with that.

And you could also argue that english people are far too protective, not letting their dcs do things on their won until they reach 14~15yo and they can not be forced to have mummy and daddy behind all the time. Then they are left on their device, wo ever had the opportunity to take smaller risks in a controlled environment (such as walking to school, taking the train on their own or staying at home on their own). But it would be OK for a 15yo to be at home on their own for 2 weeks because they don't want to go on hols with the 'parents'. (Something that would be frowned upon in France)

"lol, interesting because, as french person, I can't quite see that"

Of course, you wouldn't. These are your "norms". You cannot be expected to look objectively at your own people, and anyway, these are all relative assessments - relative to our "norms".

Cote I am not saying I would do it. But a lot of people certainly do. Especially during the summer hols.

Have a look at 'colonies de vacances' on google and you will see.

"you could also argue that english people are far too protective, not letting their dcs do things on their won until they reach 14~15yo"

That could very well be the French people's relative assessment of English norms.

Except that I have lived abroad most of my life and therefore do NOT have the 'norms' ingrained in me the way you think they are.

And it doesn't change the fact that yu would find it very rude if I was talking about english people in this way.

Well I'm not French and I don't recognise your characterisation. i work with a lot of French people and they are generally hard working and ambitious but a little less risk averse than Americans for example.

Yes but These are your "norms". You cannot be expected to look objectively at your own people, and anyway, these are all relative assessments - relative to our "norms".
So who says that you are right in your assessment and I am wrong?

That was for cote

And what grants you objectivity Cote? The fact that you aren't French? Because in my 8 yrs in the Uk, loneliness and homesickness often deprived me of objectivity.
Nor grants you any objectivity the conviction of being superior...

That is a stereotype of the English (and the French!) - that they believe they are superior to every one else!!

"generalization based on the assumption that 'forced' separation is bad for the child"

This is not about good or bad. It is about consequences.

What are the likely positive and negative consequences of sending a 5 year old away on a 5 day trip, and whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks. That is all that matters.

I'm not English, either, Franca.

I'm not bashing the French, by the way. I love living here, and I have many great friends who are French. There are many wonderful aspects to the French way of life and French mentality. There are also some unfortunate aspects, often observed by foreigners who live here, and I believe it shouldn't be a mortal sin to point these out.

NotSure - I didn't say I'm right and you are wrong Do you know what the word "relatively" means? It means this is what it looks like from where I stand, compared with what I'm used to, and that is what it looks like from where you stand, compared with what you are used to.

Is that a problem for you?

Of course it is not a sin, but I had the impression that this thread shifted, from giving reassurance to a mother who wants to stick to her principles to a bit of french bashing, how insane it is this sending kids to residential trips, how french people lack of self confidence etc...

"EverybodysSleepyEyed - re "i work with a lot of French people and they are generally hard working and ambitious"

In the UK?

You talked about objectivity though earlier Cote, not relativity. Of course people tend to observe other countries abits and norms according to individual ecperiences plus own country habits etc...

Oh gosh too tired to write

Ok, all those typos are my ipad's fault...

Yes - in the UK. But a lot of the people I deal with are in Paris

(to Cote)

Franca - That would probably because many here do consider it insane to send a group of 5 year olds on a 5 day trip away from home and their parents. This is not French bashing, it is what we honestly think. I would think it insane if the Japanese or Eskimos did it, too.

Franca - re "You talked about objectivity though earlier Cote, not relativity"

Seriously? Maybe the problem on this thread is English comprehension.

CoteDAzur Tue 22-May-12 22:30:50
These are your "norms". You cannot be expected to look objectively at your own people, and anyway, these are all relative assessments - relative to our "norms".

CoteDAzur Tue 22-May-12 22:32:39
"you could also argue that english people are far too protective"
That could very well be the French people's relative assessment of English norms.

CoteDAzur Tue 22-May-12 22:43:28
..."relatively" means? It means this is what it looks like from where I stand, compared with what I'm used to, and that is what it looks like from where you stand, compared with what you are used to.

It is not insane, though!!

That is what you think. Please don't make me say "relatively" again.

Maybe.

Cote, your comment about the french lacking ambition didn't seem to me to be just a 'relative' evaluation....

I think you have massively missed the irony in my comment.

And I will reiterate my comment. As an english person, you think it is crazy to send a 6yo away with her class for 4 days.
This doesn't mean you are right and it should never be done.

I think that english parents are far too protective and I am right of course .

I agree with Franca, the thread has moved into french bashing and ;look how awful it is' which isn't helping the Op one bit tbh.