STXH terminal cancer wants to move in

[Earlgrey19]

I’ve been separated about 4 months. My ex moved to a flat. The children have just got used to it. Tragically my ex has just found out he has a cancer recurrence and it’s terminal. Don’t know how long he’s got yet. Our children are age 3 and age 6. He wants to move in as he says that’s the only way he’ll see the children. He was having them 3 nights a week and doesn’t want to see them any less. I do want to facilitate him seeing the kids but I don’t feel I can cope with him moving in or that I can just erase the fact we are separated. There was emotional abuse. Even if he doesn’t move in he wants to be around here all the time — that’s his solution.
I know it’s so hard for him. Any ideas? I think we could probably afford to pay someone to help. Don’t know what to do.

@AuntieStella

Debts would be taken from his estate, before the remaining value is shared out to the beneficiaries.

If the debts exceed his estate, then any remaining die with him. They are not passed on.

There is a set list for prioritising which debts are paid, if the estate is not going to cover them all

Got it! Where I am the debts are taken from the estate and anything left over is the wife's debt and/or assets. There are certain exceptions, but generally speaking.

I think the Op should take legal advice on the financial situation.

If it was as simple as all debts die with him, plenty would take out loans etc when they are terminally ill if it meant they could pass the cash to family and friends knowing it wouldn't need to be paid back.

Yes, get proper legal and financial advice (mentioned earlier in the thread)

And you need to do this whatever his diagnosis proves to be

(The terminally ill usually do not find it easy to get any form of loan, and if obtained by lying about health then the providers can come after the amount as proceeds of fraud, can't they?)

The terminally ill usually do not find it easy to get any form of loan, and if obtained by lying about health then the providers can come after the amount as proceeds of fraud, can't they?)

This ^

You only inherit your spouse's debts at their death if they are joint debts with both names on the paperwork.

Don't let him in. If you do he'll never leave. You're not being heartless, you are looking after the best interests of all of you. He is still emotionally abusing you.

If it was as simple as all debts die with him, plenty would take out loans etc when they are terminally ill if it meant they could pass the cash to family and friends knowing it wouldn't need to be paid back.

No, debts have to be paid out of the estate before anything is distributed to beneficiaries. But if there isn't enough in the estate to cover debts, it doesn't mean that the deceased's family has to pay.

So if a husband owed, say. £25k in credit card debt and he dies that debt is cancelled? Same for any (private) medical bills? It doesn't have to be paid out of the estate, the wife just gets it all?

No, it isn't cancelled, and it does have to be paid out of the estate. The point I was making is that OP cannot be personally liable to pay it if there isn't enough money left in the estate.

Your assuming people alway have an estate to pay it out of. I can certainly imagine those without much in assets, taking a large debt, credit card, loan whatever distributing it, buy the spouse a car, new sofa etc. Then when the person dies theirs no estate to pay it out of. The car is in some one else's name not the deceased.

Something makes me think that really can't be right.

So if a husband owed, say. £25k in credit card debt and he dies that debt is cancelled? Same for any (private) medical bills? It doesn't have to be paid out of the estate, the wife just gets it all?

I'm not sure, but I think the debt needs to be paid out husband's share of any jointly held assets (eg house/ jin bak account) because they are effectively his surety for any loans etc, but the wife would not be legally responsible for anything in excess of those assets.

As I say, I don't know this for certain.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

So if a husband owed, say. £25k in credit card debt and he dies that debt is cancelled? Same for any (private) medical bills? It doesn't have to be paid out of the estate, the wife just gets it all?

I'm not sure, but I think the debt needs to be paid out husband's share of any jointly held assets (eg house/ jin bak account) because they are effectively his surety for any loans etc, but the wife would not be legally responsible for anything in excess of those assets.

As I say, I don't know this for certain.

It depends how the house is held. Lots of things like insurance policies, death in service etc is outside the estate so doesn't need to be paid to his debt.

Thanks pizzaeater - useful to know.

Your assuming people alway have an estate to pay it out of. I can certainly imagine those without much in assets, taking a large debt, credit card, loan whatever distributing it, buy the spouse a car, new sofa etc. Then when the person dies theirs no estate to pay it out of. The car is in some one else's name not the deceased

Yes, if the estate isn't big enough those debts won't be paid. That's a risk that creditors have to take, but they may have connected insurance policies and presumably tend to tighten up on credit limits as people get older. It still won't be the spouse's responsibility.

My friends father died a couple of years ago and his creditors tried to get her to pay his (not inconsiderable) debts.

He was in his 80's and had comparatively recently taken out a number of credit cards, "maxing" them all out, and also some bank loans. He didn't have a penny in the bank and lived in council accommodation - I can only assume he lied like buggery on the application forms and nobody checked.

My friend (who like me, is in her sixties) told them to whistle for it, and pointed out that if they couldn't be bothered to check who they were lending to, it was hardly her fault.

Her dad was a pretty rotten father - had abandoned the family when his three kids were very young, and contributing next to nothing to them for their support. They really only ever saw him when he wanted to "borrow" money. He'd been in and out of jail for fraud and minor theft, too. God alone knows how he got credit.

He doesn’t have debts. I know in theory he could have and I wouldn’t know, but he is pretty predictable and probably on the autistic spectrum and has very strong feelings about never getting anything on credit. Care should be NHS & hospice, as far as I can see.

This week the oncologist has confirmed it’s presumed relapse and he’s having a PET scan tomorrow.

Today he moved into different one bed flat as the other was only available temporarily.
I do feel bad that he has no established sense of home at this time. Kind of feel awful about him moving there today and knowing he’s going to die & is on his own.

But someone wrote this re him wanting to move home & I do fear it’s true:

See, in his mind OP will be there to keep the children occupied, quiet, and out of his way but will occasionally present them to him for him to do a saintly father act, in between waiting on him hand and foot.

And I do think as others have said I need to focus on what may be best for the kids. I suggested to him today that maintaining the status quo (us as separated) might be more stable for them. He sent me this:

“I guess it’s just so hard to know what’s best for the kids, and how they will interpret things in the future. A different side to this: when they are a bit older and can understand more about relationships, maybe it will help them to think some kind of resolution is possible. That we could come together as a family before the end, if that is indeed possible. I’m not suggesting any resumption of a romantic relationship (or even the pretence of one), but more that it’s possible to come together as well. In years to come, I’m sure they will want to know why we were living apart at that point.”

It’s hard maintaining my line. I don’t want to be inhumane. But I need to consider everyone including what I can cope with given the marriage broke down and we separated. I’m also not saying I’m not going to be supportive and facilitate things with the children.

Ah hope you're feeling ok x

You can show your kids it's possible to come together without your ex coming back to live with you - from everything you've said it sounds like that would be a total shitshow and would make everyone unhappy, giving the opposite message.

Coming together can be remaining civil with each other and the kids maintaining contact with both parents.

I think it's take a day at a time. Let him get the tests and results before making any decisions.

It might be worthwhile asking one of the cancer charities if you could have a session with a Councillor once you have the information.

It's difficult and there is no right or wrong answer. You just need to be absolutely solid in your decision and be able to explain it in years to come.

But one thing I would say if he moves back in, no visits from the girlfriend. I wouldn't want that to be something that your kids remember.

But honestly OP resolution isn't possible between two permanently separated people, at least not living together, otherwise you wouldn't have separated in the first place.

That doesn't mean that you can't support your dc through your ex's illness but living together has nothing to do with that.

You have no ongoing relationship with your ex other than sharing dc.
You will support your dc in their relationship with your ex.
That is all you are ever going to have together, a shared past, lived through current children.

His message was manipulation disguised as 'reason'. Bottom line is he used the threat of 'what will the children think of YOU if you don't have me back' conveniently forgetting that it was HIS emotional abuse that caused the split in the first place! He's trying to imply that somehow the cancer trumps his behaviour. It certainly does not.

And the children aren't going to ask 'why you didn't come together before the end'. It most likely won't even occur to them that you should. And if, by some remote chance they do ask, you will simply tell them an age appropriate truth. If you choose not to share that their father was emotionally abusive, you tell them that sometimes married people can no longer live together and that when that happens it's better that they live apart.

It's an insidious thing with emotional abuse. If he'd had the 'habit' of beating the shit out of you I have no doubt that you'd find it very easy to say "Oh hell no!!" to him moving back. Because the memory and the fear of physical pain stay with us. But with emotional abuse, as we no longer live with it day to day, sometimes the edges 'blur' and the hurtful and manipulative things begin to lose their 'power' as we get further away from it. This is what makes it so hard to, as you say, 'maintain your line'.

If you think it would help, remember and write down past (and obviously, ongoing) instances of his abuse. Fold it up and stick it in a drawer. And when you weaken, take it out, read it, and tell yourself "that's why we aren't together anymore".

He doesn't have to be living there for you to be 'safely supportive' from a distance and to do what is right for the children as far as him spending time with them. But your role is no longer to be his primary carer. He forfeited that right with his behaviour. You do first off what is right for the children, secondly what is right for you, and thirdly what feels 'safe' for you to do for him without sacrificing your 'self' and your happiness.

Have you considered staying married? I know my death in service benefits at work were 3x annual salary plus pension was paid at a lower rate to both spouse & children until they left full time education. They were paid to spouses you might want to understand how this might help to pay in the future for yourself & the children.

This may sound harsh but the reality is he won't be there in the future to plant these seeds in their heads and they probably won't even think in this way. You can just tell them you were separated and you facilitated access so he could spend time with them but that he got care and support elsewhere (from his own family and healthcare professionals).

This is, as others have said, insidious behaviour and is actually quite nasty. Trying to leverage future guilt to get what he wants now. He hasn't changed and you should take it as proof of that.

Also, I've been with terminal cancer suffers at the end and it isn't pretty. Think of it as sparing your children that trauma. They don't need him potentially being vile to you up to the end and seeing both of you at each other. They need a calm safe space in which to process what is happening.

I would respond with 'if they have those questions in the future then I will answer them so they understand. We don't need to come together as a family. You need to focus on getting yourself support from your family and the medical team. I need to focus on giving the children a calm, stable space in which to process what is happening to them. I think its best we move past this point so you can focus on getting the support you need'.

Or something along those lines. Keep shutting down the conversation.

@AcrossthePond55

His message was manipulation disguised as 'reason'. Bottom line is he used the threat of 'what will the children think of YOU if you don't have me back' conveniently forgetting that it was HIS emotional abuse that caused the split in the first place! He's trying to imply that somehow the cancer trumps his behaviour. It certainly does not.

And the children aren't going to ask 'why you didn't come together before the end'. It most likely won't even occur to them that you should. And if, by some remote chance they do ask, you will simply tell them an age appropriate truth. If you choose not to share that their father was emotionally abusive, you tell them that sometimes married people can no longer live together and that when that happens it's better that they live apart.

It's an insidious thing with emotional abuse. If he'd had the 'habit' of beating the shit out of you I have no doubt that you'd find it very easy to say "Oh hell no!!" to him moving back. Because the memory and the fear of physical pain stay with us. But with emotional abuse, as we no longer live with it day to day, sometimes the edges 'blur' and the hurtful and manipulative things begin to lose their 'power' as we get further away from it. This is what makes it so hard to, as you say, 'maintain your line'.

If you think it would help, remember and write down past (and obviously, ongoing) instances of his abuse. Fold it up and stick it in a drawer. And when you weaken, take it out, read it, and tell yourself "that's why we aren't together anymore".

He doesn't have to be living there for you to be 'safely supportive' from a distance and to do what is right for the children as far as him spending time with them. But your role is no longer to be his primary carer. He forfeited that right with his behaviour. You do first off what is right for the children, secondly what is right for you, and thirdly what feels 'safe' for you to do for him without sacrificing your 'self' and your happiness.

This

maybe it will help them to think some kind of resolution is possible. That we could come together as a family before the end, if that is indeed possible

The other side of the coin is that it would show them that an abusive man can still manipulate their mother to get his own way. Or that adults can put a deceptive front on things. Neither is particularly healthy. It's not necessarily healthy to teach them that a false resolution based solely on the fact that the abuser won't be around much longer is a good way to have a relationship.

Harsh but true, you will have total control of the narrative once he's gone. He's being so manipulative, but there's no reason the children need to know.

But if he leaves letters or something for when they turn 18, open and censor them to leave just the nice bits of him for the children. It won't help them to know what a piece of work their DF was.

You get to curate his memory for them and that's probably eating at him right now, because he can only picture you doing what he would do in your place, i.e. take the nastiest course.

If it stiffens your resolve, bear in mind that women with a terminal diagnosis are eight times more likely to be abandoned by a male partner than are men by a female partner.

No way in the world would this man turn around and do for you a fraction of what he's expecting you to do for him!

It will be more confusing and upsetting for DCs if their dad moves back in but you're still not together, he's very unwell, and emotionally abusive (which we've seen already from shouting and throwing his keys at you, and that's when he was trying to convince you to let him move in!)

He needs to stay where he is