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LGBT parents

This board is primarily for those whose children have LGBTQ+ parents to share their personal experiences and advice.

Totally shocked!!! Need help please!

447 replies

danceswithdeath · 08/09/2019 20:03

Okay so. My son goes to a private school; they do pray etc but we are not religious at home. There are obviously other parents who do not follow a religion too.

I am on a group WhatsApp with the fellow parents of my sons class (just gone into year three). Someone has just put a link for us to sign, and it is regarding not teaching our children about LGBTQ in class....

Now, I get it. Everyone has their own personal opinions. But I find this really shocking!! No one has replied expect myself, where I have asked if it was a mistake or not. They said no and to read it.

Well I really want to put something, but I'm not sure if I should... it's pissed me right off though!! I am so open with my son! He knows about a lot.

Has anyone any advice on what I could say that is calm and to the point?

OP posts:
RiftGibbon · 09/09/2019 12:40

^Be difficult and painful

ArgumentativeAardvaark · 09/09/2019 12:44

The male-female union is one that produces offspring, and in turn fosters commitment between partners. In fact, that's the whole point of marriage, and why society has actively supported it.

In other forms of coupling this stability doesn't exist.

You do realise that this thread is posted on the section of Mumsnet that exists for LGBT parents to seek support? Not for you to wade in and tell them that their families are not stable?!

I’ll also tell all my infertile and childfree by choice couple friends that their marriages are unstable too, shall I?

Here’s the thing- putting aside the fact that gay couples can of course have a child that is biologically one of theirs thanks to donor insemination/surrogacy/IVF- gay couples are also to adopt children. So there is an example of a way that male-male and female-female “couplings” can “produce” offspring in a way that is 100% identical to how heterosexual couples do it. Or are you also suggesting that adopting is not a proper stable family concept?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 09/09/2019 12:45

In the bible, these all go against the law that Jesus had given to Moses

I'm sorry - I must have missed that bit in the Gospels where Jesus gave the laws to Moses. Chapter and verse, please.

Thereis nothing in the 10 commandments which forbids homosexuality. Jesus himself said very little about sex, and what he did say was pretty much - don't be promiscuous; stay faithful to your spouse.

He said a lot about money and about power, but "Christians" who condemn people for their sexuality are often quite happy to be wealthy, and try to control other people's lives.

ArgumentativeAardvaark · 09/09/2019 12:46

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DarlingNikita · 09/09/2019 12:51

basically a family unit is male, female, child(ren). By whose lights, can you explain?

The male-female union is one that produces offspring, and in turn fosters commitment between partners. In fact, that's the whole point of marriage, and why society has actively supported it. This sounds as though you think 'marriage' by your definition exists in an inherent way. In fact it is –is it not? – a societal construct.

In other forms of coupling… Certainly the potential, or ability, to create further human beings isn't there. How about adoption/donor insemination/surrogacy/IVF, which are of course available to heterosexual couples as well as others?

admittedly I only have anecdotal evidence for this - that the gay lifestyle in general is far more promiscuous than traditional hetero relationships.
That's a pity, because of course it means that this argument is invalid. Perhaps you could produce some stats and we can have a discussion about it?

I personally don't think homosexual lifestyles are equally valid
There is no such thing as a 'homosexual lifestyle', just as there is no such thing as a heterosexual 'lifestyle'.

ArgumentativeAardvaark · 09/09/2019 12:53

Oh and also @Eli38 are you suggesting that where a parent remarries after the death of the other parent, and the couple raise the child together, this is somehow less stable than if the kid was biologically both of theirs? Because that is what you are saying about a gay couple with a child that is not biologically both partners’ offspring.

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 09/09/2019 13:10

@Eli38 with respect you haven't got a fucking clue with your anecdata. My gay brother and his partner have been together 19 years without so much as a whiff of unfaithfulness on either side. I, on the other hand, and straight and have been married twice, each time for no more than 5 years and have had numerous short-term relationships in between and since.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

LightsInOtherPeoplesHouses · 09/09/2019 13:12

Not sure what sex has to do with letting children know it's ok for two men or two women to be together. DS who is 6, knows that's ok, he doesn't know what sex is yet though, why would he? I've answered questions as they've arisen, usually when one of his aunts is pregnant, so he knows about sperm and eggs, doesn't know the details of how they meet. We've talked about how I'm married to his father as he's asked questions about what that means, and I've said that two people who love each other often get married and that can be a man and a woman, two men or two woman.

I do draw the line at young children being told it's possible to change sex. I'd prefer it if children were allowed to like what they like without being pushed towards 'girls' things or 'boys' things.

joystir59 · 09/09/2019 13:17

I pulled my child out of nursery when at age 3 he came home and told me that his teacher said he can become a girl if he wants to. My son was very confused and a bit frightened. I will 100% NOT let some stranger tell me son about gay/lesbian relationships at that tender age. I and I only will talk to him about this when he is ready and able to make sense of the world.
Each to their own, of course, but at 3 they are far too young for this kind of information

But it is possible for people to be gay, and some people have the feeling of 'gayness' from a very early age, and children may be growing with same sex parents. It is NOT possible for anyone to change sex- for a boy to become a girl. So I agree it's inappropriate for children to be educated that they can change sex,but it IS appropriate to give child age appropriate information on sexuality.

flibertyplus2 · 09/09/2019 14:04

Well done for saying something OP

Juupiter · 09/09/2019 14:08

I’m a bit Confused Hmm at the poster’s ‘anecdotal evidence’ of gay promiscuity. My anecdotal evidence involves my partner as I having a very cosy monogamous life in which we bicker about whose turn it is to do the washing up, enjoy a nice lunch out together while our son is at school, cuddle up on the sofa to watch Netflix in the evenings and have sex when we remember to/aren’t too tired/ can be arsed to take our cosy pyjamas off. We are absolute hell raising heathens, I tell you.

Scarlett555 · 09/09/2019 14:18

I personally don't think homosexual lifestyles are equally valid. And I have a problem with the state forcing me or my kids to accept that it is.

ELI38 that is an extremely offensive and homophobic thing to say.

Luckily your bigoted personal opinion is completely invalid. We have equal marriage laws in this county and of course being homosexual is just as valid as being straight.

PlinkPlink · 09/09/2019 14:32

Well first of all, if only it was that simple. The whole Birmingham affair taught us that taking the kids out isn't really an option. But even more than that, an ideology shouldn't be forced upon us. If parents as a group decide to teach XYZ ideology that's their prerogative, but the government shouldn't make those decisions
I retract my previous statement. You shouldn't take them out. Biology? Physics? Chemistry? All quite clearly contradicting the Bible and definitely not in line with, for example, Creationism. And yet it is statutory and children should not be pulled from it. The government made that decision. They also made sex education mandatory - again, not everyone will agree with abortions or contraception. But there you go, it's still mandatory.
Homosexuality is NOT an ideology. It is a fact that it is present in our society and that it is normal (see the animal kingdom if you dont believe me). Plenty of species have gay relationships/encounters.

As to the rest, I really don't want to get into a protracted argument, but basically a family unit is male, female, child(ren)

Why? What is it about a male and a female marriage that cannot be taught in same sex marriages? What about single parent families? Are they not a unit?

The male-female union is one that produces offspring, and in turn fosters commitment between partners. In fact, that's the whole point of marriage, and why society has actively supported it
Society has actively supported marriage because it's been there for centuries, not because it produces offspring. If you look back (not too far), it was a way of a man owning a woman. So not an equal, supportive partnership or fostering commitment between partners.

In other forms of coupling this stability doesn't exist
I would really like to see some studies on this. Or evidence? My family was a 'stable' family as you call it. Except my father was a violent abuser and cheater. That man mucked up my future relationships pretty badly - psychologically speaking. And I still see a great deal of damage being done to children with parents in heterosexual relationships.

Certainly the potential, or ability, to create further human beings isn't there. It's also quite telling - and admittedly I only have anecdotal evidence for this - that the gay lifestyle in general is far more promiscuous than traditional hetero relationships
Anecdotes are not evidence nor are they valid in an argument/debate.

I believe society as a whole functions better when the hetero is still the norm. Now I'm not telling you how to live your life, but I personally don't think homosexual lifestyles are equally valid. And I have a problem with the state forcing me or my kids to accept that it is

Society functions when we are tolerant and accepting of other's choices. It is less divided. I was brought up Methodist so I was always taught that Jesus taught us to love each other. He taught us to forgive 'sinners' (I really don't think gays and lesbians are sinners). I also think that the Bible is a load of mistranslated rubbish, collated by people who thought that crucifixion was an acceptable form of punishment. So, like you I pick and choose the bits I'd like to teach my children.

Teaching children from a young age that there are children with homosexual parents will encourage them to view it as a normal occurrence. The government is not trying to indoctrinate your children into being homosexuals. They are teaching tolerance. Children should not be bullied for their parents relationships. Children should learn to accept that there are differences in the world. It would go a long way to reducing bullying - and isnt that a good thing?

If you were a Creationist, you could simply tell your child you don't believe in that and tell them your version of events. Why is it not acceptable for your child to learn of another viewpoint and yours together, and make up their own mind?

Is it the fact you're worried that they will form an opinion different from yourself that worries you? Because the likelihood of that happening is quite high in any circumstance be it sexuality, religion, race, politics etc.

SimonJT · 09/09/2019 15:35

@Eli38 I’m a gay man, I’m 31, I’ve had sex with two people out of choice, it could have been higher if I wanted.

There also isn’t anything wrong with being promiscuous.

SoupDragon · 09/09/2019 15:39

basically a family unit is male, female, child(ren).

So I'm not part of a family unit because I'm single?

Are you usually this narrow minded?

iklboo · 09/09/2019 16:31

@Eli38 - and what if one of your children is gay?

Eli38 · 09/09/2019 17:01

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SoupDragon · 09/09/2019 17:03

It's an opinion no less valid than yours, and I'm well entitled to it.

Yes. It's an offensive, homophobic opinion. Amongst other things.

Eli38 · 09/09/2019 17:03

Duh, of course you're not. Clue's in the word - single, not family. And while you personally might be a lovely human being, contributing much to society, if we were all to adopt the single life, no commitment and sleeping about, it would be detrimental to society.

Eli38 · 09/09/2019 17:05

You do realise that this thread is posted on the section of Mumsnet that exists for LGBT parents to seek support? Not for you to wade in and tell them that their families are not stable?!*

I came into this thread directly from the main page. I only realised much later in which section it is.

Eli38 · 09/09/2019 17:11

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danceswithdeath · 09/09/2019 17:12

@Eli38 why do you presume that single parents sleep about!? Are you actually serious???? Wow.

OP posts:
DarlingNikita · 09/09/2019 17:13

And this notion is widely accepted for almost everything else. I can have an opinion on Labour vs Conservative or film vs theatre, and nobody cares. So why is it wrong for me to believe a hetero and modest society is more moral?

Because equality of heterosexual and homosexual marriage is enshrined in law.

if we were all to adopt the single life, no commitment and sleeping about, it would be detrimental to society.
Does everyone with a 'single life' sleep about? How does it matter if they do? Can you define 'no commitment'? Am I as an auntie not committed to my nephews and nieces for whom I have caring responsibilities? Or is my DP as a son not committed to his parents, for whom he has the same?

I'd be very interested in hearing your response to a pp's question: 'and what if one of your children is gay?'

and to mine from upthread on the relationship of marriage to society
and on adoption/donor insemination/surrogacy/IVF. And if you have any actual evidence for 'the gay lifestyle' being 'far more promiscuous than traditional hetero relationships', I (and the rest of the thread) am all ears about that too.

SoupDragon · 09/09/2019 17:13

Clue's in the word - single, not family. And while you personally might be a lovely human being, contributing much to society, if we were all to adopt the single life, no commitment and sleeping about, it would be detrimental to society.

Are you saying that I, and all single parents, sleep about?

danceswithdeath · 09/09/2019 17:13

@Eli38 I really do hope, for your child's sake and no other reasons at all, that they are not gay. Poor child if so.

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