DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

Not when it comes to lying to the school they absolutely cannot have a child start school as a different sex to what they were born too the school have to know and legally you cannot change gender until you are 18.

The OP I think does need to come to terms with the preferred name and pronouns but on the understanding that everyone is aware of exactly what the child is a trans boy.

and if he thinks lying to a school about this is the easy path he really is stupid the implications of this could be wide reaching

It’s not just a case of her sharing with teen boys.
What about the boys right to dignity.

Is your dd taking any subjects that involves having to get changed? If so, it would be out of order for her to use the male changing rooms and she’s going to face a lot of anger from the boys.

I would be worried about the fact that someone from her previous life could out her thanks to the internet and social media- a rogue tag or someone looking at her brother, friend or parents’ social media could quickly expose her secret.

Did your husband consider the ramifications of saying male? Did the school not have separate sex and gender columns on the form? With children choosing non binary these days, I’m surprised that the school didn’t ask so that they could use preferred pronouns.

Teacher here at 11-18 secondary school. We have lots of kids who identify as names/genders other than those assigned at birth. Some do it for a bit and then go back to birth sex, others don't. It's usually a total non-issue either way.

Better if school is aware. What our place usually do is, admin have details of birth sex, but we as teachers don't need that information. Chosen name will be on the register so that's what teachers and peers will use. I dont know the deadnames of any of the children I teach, nor do I need to. We have gender neutral toilets and changing facilities as I'm sure most schools do.

There is no real issue with a child self-identifying the way they want at school. Teenage years are (and have always been) all about experimenting and finding out who you are. Don't let "trans-debate" rhetoric frighten you. If you can, try to listen and understand what your child is going through even if you find it difficult to hear sometimes. All that teenage bravado will no doubt be masking a lot of fear and vulnerability. Entering a new environment as a different gender has got to be pretty terrifying and your child will need your unconditional love and support a lot more than they're letting on.

Have you got specific advice and support from other parents in your situation? I think that would be a good place to start. You won’t be alone in your feelings. The fact that you and your husband are coming from different viewpoints is also so common.

At 16, and I have two dcs of a similar age, I would be very wary of thinking you can go over their head and not take on board their explicit wishes.

Yes you are the adult, yes they are only 16 and yes it’s a potential minefield if they try to pass as someone they aren’t. But also there will be very real and raw feelings here of someone trying to create their own understanding and identity.

You don’t want to alienate them, or make them go behind your back because you aren’t supporting them.

I would also sit down with them and try to list your concerns, but as concerns for them, not as a list of reasons why they shouldn’t do it. Then see if you could come to an agreement on how to move forwards.

The school will need to be Informed but there is no reason for it to be public knowledge so if she is passing, it may not be questioned.

We have had this in my school with a student who joined in year 12. I only know they had transitioned as I noticed on their medical info that they had a condition that only affects females. They passed as male (just about). At first impressions they come across a small nerdy male. He didn’t make a fuss at all about it and certainly wasn’t going round waving flags. I had a lot of time for him (very able student). Not sure whether the other students or most staff knew he was trans - it was certainly never mentioned in front of me. We had some unisex toilets as well as male and female only toilets, so
the toilet thing wasn’t an issue.

Because the husband wants to lie on the official application.

I think the father is so busy trying to be a friend to their child (I am guessing that he is as much at a loss as OP in reality) that he has forgotten one of the most important things we do for our children which is to ensure their safety and make sure that they’re aware of the consequences of their actions and choices.
It is one thing for a young person to make these choices in their home amongst people who have your best interests at heart- the parents need to make sure they’re emotionally ready for all of the types of reception they may receive at college

To save you worrying about betraying your DD’s confidence, it may be worth explaining to her that her current school will have to share their safeguarding file with the new school within 5 days of the start of term and that file will contain the information about her transition. By contacting them ahead of the start of term, you will enable her to work with the pastoral term before the first day to ensure that she understands what the boundaries are as to what she can & can’t do. I don’t expect the school will have an issue with using her new name or her wearing boys’ uniform but she can’t use the boys’ toilets or changing rooms so she would no doubt find it helpful to have a discussion about which facilities she can use (for example, do they have unisex facilities or third spaces throughout the school or only in certain buildings?) and other things which might crop up as well as signposting where she can go for support (does the school provide a counselling service for example?).

I don’t know the educational system in UK, as I grew up in a southern European country, and went through my academic years over there.
Despite declaring yourself as male on the forms, that name needs to match any legal identity card/passport. Or literally you’ll be creating a person who does not exist and has no past record.

You’re still their legal guardian, so I think you need to tell the school.
Bullying is so bad nowadays, but can’t even imagine how many dangerous situations DC could ran into doing something as simple as getting into the toilet. Not worth it

I would say nothing to the school. Now might be a good time for your daughter to find out that no one is obliged to share her belief that she is male, when she is clearly not.

That is quite ridiculous and totally unacceptable. Contact the college tell them about the situation and leave the ball in their court as to how they will deal with it. I'd be tempted to tell her to take a year out till she comes to her senses. All this enablement has led to this. Women can be men and men can be women. They can't.

I really don't like the use of "deadnaming". How many of these students will have made official name changes? They have not died, they had a name a parent chose for them and while I would totally call a young person whatever they wanted, I will not pretend there was something wrong with their other name.

Please put aside your clear annoyance that you have been "sidelined." Whatever happens next all that matters is to protect your DD and find a way to help her navigate this minefield that she has stepped into. There will be lots of challenges ahead and she needs all her family beside her.

Without a doubt the school must be told. Could you look on their website to find any policies that might exist about this. If they do it might help you to guide your DD in the right direction. If it is there in black and white then hopefully a way can be found to do the right thing without falling out with her.

I am steeped in all this dilemma too within my family and my take has been that I do not mind what you call yourself or how you choose to look, but I will always love you and be on your team and will judge you on how kind you are to others and nothing else.

I understand you'll never change your gender critical mind, fair enough. But from a parent of a well adjusted son (ftm) all I can say is, personally I've never seen my child happier than when he became who he is.
If you fight your child on this, not only will you alienate him from you, you'll cause a rift in the family.
Take his hand and support him, you don't have to fully agree with it but surely it's better to be there and maybe offer advice if they ask for it, or ask for information on his journey than to end up with them completely cutting you out of his life.

Only you can decide if your desire to have a daughter is worth more than his happiness.

I wish you and your family every happiness however it turns out.

In education, a young person is considered able to make their own decisions from age 16, which usually (I am unsure re private settings) includes the ability to instruct the educational setting as to whether they consent for parents to be kept informed, sent letters, have information shared.

In terms of your worries re your son passing, and concerns re bullying, I would ask him if he has any worries and see how you can best support him to manage his concerns. You could, for instance, look at shoes with discreet lift for additional height, and at a gym membership for building muscle. Put bluntly, it's easier to pass as a tall slim person than as a short curvy one. If he wants to take hormones, I would be looking into how best to support him to take regulated, monitored drugs with medical support rather than refusing this and driving him into the arms of internet suppliers.

It sounds from your posts as though you are struggling to separate your grief at no longer having a daughter and your worries for your son's long and short term future from your duty, as a parent, to support your son as best you are able to live a happy, fulfilling life as a young trans man. Your feelings are valid but they aren't his problem and he will be going through enough right now, particularly as it sounds as though he has picked up on your reluctance to accept him. I would you suggest you put the effort into reconnecting with and supporting your son, and, separately, seeking support from your DH, community organisations or therapy for your personal issues and worries.

I am quite sure that under their Equality policy it will be made clear that the student's biological sex is not disclosed if this is what they wish.

I doubt that bullying will be an issue - young people of that age are far more broad-minded about these things than we are!

I think that you and/or your husband are going to get a call from school. I’m guessing that your h is parental contact since he filled out the forms with her and they wanted to keep you out of the loop. As the person who casually filled out the forms with the wrong info, he should be the one to explain to school that she’s trans and might need some adjustments/protecting. I understand that he wants her to be happy but he should have spoken to you and considered the sort of thing that you’re worried about before he filled out the forms.

This

And a safeguarding / OFSTED / ISIS fail for the protection of other pupils
as well as being illegal in terms of EA2010

Schools have to protect ALL their pupils,
Single sex toilets and spaces have to be that

OPs child is a non conforming girl but will always be female

It only takes one. And there will be one.

And if OP's DD doesn't look as masculine as she thinks she does, it will soon be apparent. Whilst it's far more mainstream these days and a lot of students and teachers won't give two hoots how they want to identify, there are issues that they need to understand which can only come from honestly.

Sixth form will have policy around bathrooms/changing rooms etc and a boy accidentally finding out he is sharing a 'safe male space' with a female has just as much right to be upset as a female does.

OP you are right to stand your ground and insist on a proper discussion with the Institution. Anything else is ridiculous.

I'm so sorry OP this must be incredibly painful for you, I cannot imagine how it must feel.

Frankly, your DH needs to get real and stop pandering to this as if it's no more than a little girl thinking she wants to be a mermaid or to have unicorn. She's 16 FFS, you are her parents until she is an adult and you make the final choices. He needs to be backing you.

Absolutely contact the school asap, and agree between you how to handle this. Hopefully they will have strategies in hand so as not to completely alienate her and to accommodate her up to a reasonable point, but she doesn't get to call the shots here. As PPs have pointed out there are privacy and safeguarding issues here, that affect people other than herself. The sooner she learns this is not a walk in the park, the better.

Be strong for your DD, even if everyone is telling you are in the wrong.

@speckledgreenfrogs

Surely your DD would have had an interview for the sixth form, or some sort of face to face meeting?

Explain to her that she can ‘present’ as stereotypically male, if that’s what she wants, but it’s not ok to lie about her biological sex on an official document. Sex and gender are not the same thing, and she absolutely can identify as masculine, but that doesn’t change her biological sex. Use the name she has chosen, and if you can’t bring yourself to use he/him go with they as a pronoun. The school will have policy and strategy in place for trans identifying pupils, but they need to know that she/they are trans identifying so they can provide the right support.