DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

The other thing to remember is it is a private school where there is likely to be parents who are vocal and have far more sway than in the state system.

Once it gets out if it were hidden the outcry would be huge! I would be supportive of that you cannot have someone passing for the opposite sex without the school being aware and making sure safeguarding for ALL students is in place and the OP could find an expulsion takes place and allegations of fraud committed

Of course the PP does when claiming offence when I used correct female language to refer to her daughter - PP is trying to destroy the true meaning of words, and therefore the very ability to identify females as a group.

Yep, in the young it tends to be internalised homophobia, autism or some past trauma, sexual or otherwise. The latter goes some way to explaining why so many care leavers identify as the opposite sex.
Taking all of the above out of the equation and the remain pool of young folk who identify as trans or non binary (sub age 30) is pretty minuscule.

(Totally excluding all of the Costa del Sol brigade because they’re just fetishists)

The more open you arew ith the school and staff, the more support and protection they will be able to offer your child. I would get in touch and explain the situation. Your child will not be the first trans/ gender non conforming child they've seen, and they will be able to help.

Your child needs to understand that for their own safety and wellbeing they will be better off disclosing their gender identity than trying to hide it. Trying to do so can be dangerous for trans people. Your child is at an age where their peers will more likely than not be able to tell anyway. Your child is maybe hoping they will be able to sidestep awkward conversations about it all but it doesn't work that way.

Your child also needs to understand that being trans or gender non conforming means that- fairly or not- they will have to explain their situation to other people more than they are expecting. It is boring and frustrating but they will need to repeatedly tell people what gender they are, their pronouns etc. It is part of what makes life hard and complicated for trans people and it is the reality of the situation.

We don't yet live in a world where someone can present themselves as a man or woman and everyone will immediately take it as read that that is how they should be addressed and perceived.

That is the most concerning thing to me in your post. It sounds like your child wants to present as a boy and isn't prepared for the reality of how people will treat them and just how much they will need to advocate for themselves over and over again, and possibly answer intrusive and ignorant questions.

I would also be concerned about how much this additional challenge will impact your child's academic performance, as they will have social challenges on top of schoolwork and normal teenage shit like friendship dramas. I would talk to your kid and make sure they understand that it will be harder for them than their peers.

I wish you the best OP. The adice I've tried to give is aimed at keeping your child safe at school and trying to prepare them for the reality of being a trans kid at school and what it will ask of them.

I'm sending you love and acknowledge I haven't addressed any of the very real emotional difficulties you are facing as a mother, which are enormous and overwhelming. You are doing your best and your distress is completely valid.

@Wildegeese We don't yet live in a world where someone can present themselves as a man or woman and everyone will immediately take it as read that that is how they should be addressed and perceived.
How would we know if a child at secondary school wearing the trousers uniform was presenting themselves as a boy, or just cold and/or found trousers more comfortable?
Surely in this ideal world women would have to wear skirts and makeup or be accused of being men?
Does it extend to jobs - should my DD male primary school teachers expect to be called She?

@speckledgreenfrogs I'd suggest you contact https://sex-matters.org/ for advice.

I don't disagree with you at all. I find most people's grasp of being a man vs being a woman superficial and frustrating. A woman with short hair, no makeup and football shorts is no less of a woman than a woman who favours heels and lipstick. A man who works as a nurse and collects dolls is no less of a man than a beer drinking soldier. It all runs far deeper than our external presentation. I hate how much how we look and our interests are politicised by all sides of gender discussi on instead of just letting people crack on and be themselves.

I think I was trying to say we CAN'T tell someone's identity based on a quick glance at someone's clothes and hair.

I was concerned that the OP's kid thought wearing 'boy clothes' meant they would automatically pass as a boy and Would therefore simply be accepted as a boy and there would be no issues from other kids, which seems like it could end in tears. They need to understand it's much more complicated than that.

In a previous life I was a clinical physiologist. I worked mainly in cardiology but I trained in and began my career in cardio respiratory.

Every measure of the lungs, whether a Vitalograph, lung volume, diffusion, gas exchange has different values dependant on your sex. Your height and race are also relevant.

ECG electrodes have to be placed according to anatomy which obviously varies between males and females.

Women generally have a slightly faster heart rate.

Now you may think that is all irrelevant to a school but students taking PE or Health and Social Care courses often have to make physiological measurements.

It is boring and frustrating but they will need to repeatedly tell people what gender they are, their pronouns etc.

It is certainly boring and frustrating to have others demand you comply with their fantasy based on regressive 1950s sex stereotypes or sexual fantasies and porn. It is funny how you mention gender non-conforming alongside trans when trans is based entirely on conforming to gendered expectations - the very expectations that harm women and many women have spent decades fighting against.

I was concerned that the OP's kid thought wearing 'boy clothes' meant they would automatically pass as a boy and Would therefore simply be accepted as a boy and there would be no issues from other kids, which seems like it could end in tears.

It's still not clear why this child would even want to do this. According to many posters on this thread, children and young people are very accepting of trans identifying people, so why doesn't the OP's daughter just announce that she is a transboy, and then everything will be fine? The school will know her sex, which is important for safeguarding and legal requirements, but everyone will also know that she likes to use a male name and wants to be accepted as a transboy.

That sounds sensible. Rather like the emos in the 80s/90s.

Everyone had an understanding of their emotional position, their requirements of others and their general outlook on life. Their identity however, was not more important than their sex.

I do think language demands on others like pronouns is too much though.

‘Preferred pronouns’ are not just a language demand - they are a demand for you deny the evidence of your senses, to deny truth and reality, and to declare that 2+2=5.

No I am saying it isn’t offensive to gay people

Absolute rubbish .

In your opinion. You do not speak for all or even the majority of gay people

It's not offensive to say a gay man should just find the right woman?
And what about the gay men who consider this conversion therapy?

She didn’t

That is clearly not what is being said . Is it offensive to gay people that someone transitions and is attracted to the same gender ? No it is not .

You don’t speak for all gay people though.

It clearly is offensive to some/many and has the obvious issues of erasing the concept of same sex attraction which is what the legal protection is based on.

Do you want to erase gay people?

A lesbian is someone who’s biologically female, a gay man is someone who’s biologically male.

No that is a fact.

You do not speak for all or even the majority of gay people

Nor do you.

Thank you Bundle.
The SC judgment addressed the deliberate eradication of same sex attraction and came down very clearly on the side of the rights of lesbians and gay men to choose same sex relationships, organisations meetings, etc

The problem has been all the self appointed monitors deciding that men claiming to be women were lesbians if they said they were and trying to homophobically bully everyone else into accepting men as lesbians.

They are entitled to mangle words, meanings and facts if that's what floats their boat - but the rest of society are equally entitled to tell them to leave same sex attrracted people alone. Just as athe SC has ruled.

Anyway - won't derail the OPs thread any more. Hopefully all the earlier wise advice from parents and those concerned to safeguard children has been helpful to her.