DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

I feel like I am out numbered my voice just gets ignored every single time.

I'm the only woman in our family. When this happens to me I make it very plain in a very clear voice that just because my voice is female and softer in tone does not mean it won't be heard, nor that my entirely valid opinion is less worthy of their time or consideration. This is especially important if your daughter thinks being a girl or woman is in any way inferior to being a man. It's not. Let no one in your family suggest otherwise in any way.

How big is the sixth form? In terms of student numbers? It is better to be at a large institution where there will undoubtedly be others just like him and no-one will bat an eyelid. At a small, select institution, he will stand out.

And does it have loos which can be used by both male and female students?

I think I would investigate the loo situation at this private sixth form, as well as other local state ones, then the issue of him using other boys' loos won't come up.

My gut feeling is that he will be better at a large, state sixth form. Loads of trans students at our local ones, which have student numbers ranging from 2000 to 4000.

100% agree, now reading it back I realise I’ve just accepted being not listened to but not anymore.

There will be a long, stern family chat tonight.

What I’m most sad about apart from the 6th form thing is that our son uses the new name and male pronouns, and I’m sure he’s told all his friends about his “brother” 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

As I’m sure you’re aware…. She can’t just expect to be treated as a boy in all situations.

boys have as much right as girls to expect privacy and respect when it comes to toilets and changing rooms.

I think she’s underestimating how aggressive the boys might get towards her if they think she’s encroaching in their spaces.

she'll sill be an obvious females in a male space….

on the other hand, teenage boys can be sexually aggressive, so she might have to deal with that as well.

it’s a minefield and not going to be in the least bit easy for her.

I really hope you all managed to weather the storm as unscathed as possible. X x

I went to a private school for 6th form and we still had a games afternoon on a Wednesday (though this is the dark ages we are talking about, those that compete against other schools will still play sports and the time they use for games and practice may be used for other activities that require changing - I was allowed to do volunteering, girls' cricket which was in its infancy, and sailing, all just for "interest").
There will still be toilets to consider, and residentials (we went on a school skiing trip and slept in dorms), language trips if she's doing that.
The school must know her sex as others have said for safeguarding and medical reasons. Also, she definitely won't pass - not as the boys get bigger and more manly between 16 and 18. At 13 many boys are small and have no signs of puberty. At 18, not so much.
Even if SHE thinks she'll be perfectly safe in the boys loos and dorms, she is a child and should not be doing her own safeguarding.
You could also (as well as scrutinising her expenditure) talk to her about what she's going to do when someone says she's a girl, or just plain assumes she's a girl, and whether she really thinks her school mates will still want to be friends if they find out she's been lying to them about her sex.
There are some things that children can just not tell people if they want it kept quiet (my DCs don't tell everyone they meet that they are adopted, but school and doctors need to know), but there are others that will make people feel lied to.

Surely at 16 she's a minor and can't change any legal documents yet?

I just wanted to say @speckledgreenfrogs you are doing a great job. Your child will come through this ( I don’t mean change their mind) and you will all be ok. Keep a steady hand. Teens these days are so tricky. With love x

Look, your son is being kind and accepting about his sibling who he loves. That's good, right?

They're both too young to understand fully the wider implications.

I can completely understand why the focus here is on the school, and it sounds like it’s all a bit of a mess.

If you can find time to do so, I’d try and make some time to watch some comedy, read some novels, see some films etc with strong masculine women in them with her.

I’m not an expert but I think girls sometimes struggle to identify as women because they can’t see women who look like them.

I’m not the pp that mentioned autism before, but wanted to answer. I think research has shown that there is a high co-occurrence of autism within those that want to transition - so it may be helpful to explore, as with a diagnosis navigating things (especially in HE and the workplace) can be easier with various accommodations.

I have noticed, her voice has changed recently, I’m hoping that this is just natural puberty and that’s her natural female voice, as I do know some women who do have slightly deeper voices, but you can still tell they are obviously female.

As for binders and packers, I can only pray that she is not using them, she’s hidden a few things from me before so even if I searched her room I’m sure they would be hidden properly so there would be no point.

I don't think you'll be the first Mum to have approached the college with similar issues, they'll likely know how to deal with this. I do think you need to make contact with them and confirm you have a biological female child, who wishes to present as male and seek clarification as to what the protocol is re using toilets etc. The other students will likely be on the whole accommodating from my experience of this age group, as outing people is considered to be the same as being racist.

I'd be surprised if the application didn't ask for 'sex assigned at birth'?

She’s got a provisional with her new name, apparently she can get a new passport with the new name? I overheard a phonecall to what I am assuming was one of her friends.

Honestly I am just a mess at the moment.

@speckledgreenfrogs the minimum age for legal gender recognition is 18 and the birth certificate cannot be changed without a gender recognition panel

so yes a stern chat is needed because of the above. You cannot lie to the school - how they decide to handle a trans male student is their prerogative as well particularly regarding communal accommodation etc and guidance still is not accessing single sex toilets etc

if your husband has facilitated this beyond supporting as much as he I would be having very stern words with him.

I am a mum of 2 DC in their twenties, we haven't experienced exactly what you have, but somewhat similar. I stopped battling and I am supportive, but I am on standby to handle the fall out. If you don't you'll constantly be at loggerheads with your child and that will break the relationship as much as anything. I'm sorry you are all going through this but if your DC is so stubborn about it then let them continue. I realise that may be against the grain a bit - but for the sanity of you and your family you can't battle forever.

She got her name changed via deed poll, and the school obliged to use it on the GCSE certificates as they had a green light from the father, and apparently thats the new “legal name” so they did it. The school also agreed to remove the gender marker.

If it helps, she was at a small private secondary.

Hi, sorry if this has been mentioned in later replies. I work in admissions for a 6th form (not private, but i imagine the rules are the same). When your child comes to formally enrol after GCSE results they will require a form of ID (passport, birth certificate etc). Sounds like your child's ID will still have Female on it. ID is required for enrolment with the exam boards in order to complete A-Levels/BTECs and the information the college provides MUST be the legally correct info. So chances are the college will have to be made aware. Even if your child does get their sex legally changed on their passport, it's probably too late for this to be done before enrolment. Hope this helps?

I think this is a really good point.. lots and lots of teenage girls (on the school run) all look so so similar, (long straight hair, make up, very short skirt), it almost seems like there is only one way to be ‘feminine’ or ‘female’. I would have felt like a real imposter if I was a teen now (I have never been built that way, went for traditionally male-dominated subjects at school, and into a male-dominated career).

Thank you for the kind words love, nice to know I’m not alone. Sending you a virtual hug x

You need to contact the Head of Pastoral care at the sixth form and explain the situation as you have done here. Your child doesn’t need to know. The school should have a policy around trans identifying children and they can advise you how they plan to deal with this. Ask for the policy.

The school need to be aware of the sex of your child for safe guarding reasons and just for general well-being of your child. Mostly it’s autistic girls who are presenting in this way but if she is autistic there will be other indicators (fussy with good, sensitive to clothing/noise, few friends, generally seems ‘difficult’ - these were the ones my dc has anyway as well as identifying as trans)

It is completely unrealistic to think you can turn up at a school and pretend to be male and think no one will notice. I can understand how your child thinks this is a viable plan, but your dh too?

Good luck and sorry you are going through this.

Changing your name on a passport isn’t the same as changing gender @speckledgreenfrogs her provisional licence isn’t the same as a passport which I thought needed a GRC to change gender

Transition aside, but name changes get messy if you don’t start changing everything to match the deed poll - I’ve been there with a name change and everything unravels and re-tangles when documents don’t match.

Probably better paying towards therapy than a fancy private school. She will never be a boy or man and probably heading down a very expensive medical route if determined to follow the current trends! Agree on the neurodiversity assessment!!

I feel for your predicament but your DD is legally still a child your responsibility, and legally biologically female and as others have said the school must know all of this. There are a whole range of issues that need to be considered and I would try and include your DD in the discussions as much as you can because she needs to understand them too.

Thank you, that really does help.

It’s going to be a complete shit show isn’t it 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

But seriously thank you for taking time to comment that x