DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

It sounds like she wants to "try out" passing as male and living as male, and a small private school at age 16 is probably preferable to university or the workplace and away from home at 18.

Your fears and anxieties abiut the possible outcome of this are not unfounded, and as hard as it is to stand by, perhaps she needs to experience a little resistance and discomfort to see that life isn't like tik tok.

I'm not saying she deserves to be bullied or anything like that.

What I'm saying is at the moment she has this rose coloured idea of what passing as a male is like, and it's not the reality.

I love the suggestion of finding masculine women as role models as I agree that it's a problem that "girlie girls" seem to be the accepted norm and any one outside of this is made to feel less than and unacceptable.

And obviously be there for any potential fallout.

Also agree with contacting the school. It's a multi pronged approach!

There’s so so many Qs not answered or easily answerable - this is one of them.
What gender have the school got for her as of now? And name??
I don’t see how she can stop you contacting the school about it tbh. I know she’s 16 but she’s still under your parental responsibility. Presumably if her name is Katie on the school admissions list, and she turns up and says she is called Tom, they’ll say ‘err you’re not on the list’..! Seems strange she thinks it will just work out magically by itself.

Respectfully, while you are right that your child should not lie to the school, you cannot tell your husband and your son not to respect your older child's pronouns or to think of them as a boy. Tread very, very carefully. You will become the bad guy by trying to talk them out of being trans.

@speckledgreenfrogs if she presents as what she is a trans man with preferred pronouns of he/him and the name chosen then no it shouldn’t be. The school should be able to handle it and her peers be accepting of it. I worked at a a girls school where a pupil identified as a trans man and had a male name but everyone knew that. And it was fine - allowances were made (using the staff toilets etc).

what will be a shitshow is if you lie. The implications of that are far reaching. But even the most fervent of trans rights supporters would not see her as male but a trans male and everyone has the right to know that. What happens if she kisses a girl who believes she is a boy - she is taking away her right to choose (or a boy if that is the choice) suddenly she can be in a world of trouble.

I feel for you OP. My DD, also about to start 6th form also has serious mental health issues (she doesn't want to be a boy, but tbh I wouldn't put it past her at some point).

Constant fighting is exhausting and demoralising so I largely just let her crack on unless she is being more of a PITA than usual.

If (when) she comes unstuck, so be it and hopefully by then she will have left home.

I value my mental health and I think you should too. I know that sounds harsh but unless you've had to live day to day with someone with serious mental health issues for years on end it can be difficult to understand how awful it is.

You have other children relying on you as i do.

I assume on the admissions form that there’s a caveat about all the information being true to the best of your knowledge. Which your DH has clearly lied on.

now, they’re unlikely to revoke the school place (you are, after all, paying) but presumably they could…

Can you not understand that this is not about you, it is about your child? If you love them unconditionally as you say then you should respect their wishes and not just brush them aside. You should want them to be happy in their own skin. Their preferred pronouns are he/they and you should be using those at the very least. They are very nearly legally an adult now and will make their own decisions soon enough without you snooping in their bank accounts etc. you really do risk pushing your beloved child away with this controlling behaviour.

She's young, so she has no idea about life, but living a lie (especially one so obviously a lie) is a miserable, long road. It won't be successful and everyone who props her up to think so is doing her a great disservice.

Then there's the ethical question (not as problematic if she were a boy) of tricking people. Is it okay to try to trick people into thinking she's a boy? How will that work with friendships or group activities. If she's led to belief it's okay to deceive others to get what she wants, won't she do this in other ways too?

And safety. Do you really want her sleeping and changing in hotel/dorm/apartment/camping rooms with teen boys? I can't believe your DH has truly thought this through. It's insanity.

Sorry - nearly dinner time so a bit occupied, trying my best x

May I ask how I am being controlling? I’d personally think if anything I’ve been the opposite. I haven’t been able to control anything to do with this

Also, I don’t see the problem with using correct, sex based pronouns on an online anonymous forum?

Hello,

not a parent, f24. I had a couple of trans friends during sixth form, it was 2 schools one all boys one all girls so one friend was male but living female and one female living male. I would highly highly suggest your child had this acknowledged by the school for safe guarding and pastoral reasons because of things like PE, sex based health care, general mental health support etc. I would recommend you do posts in future using he/him pronouns if possible (unless relating to sex based issue) because you should support your child until or unless they show otherwise for gender identity. I myself am gender critical but I think at sixth from age onwards we can trust young people on their journey and if there is not medical intervention involved it cannot prove too harmful to emotionally support in this time.

Thanks, really liked the idea of watching media with masculine women in it too. Not sure how I’ll be able to get her to spend longer than 20 minutes with me voluntarily tho 🤦‍♀️

this. I think they may be conflating "transitioning" with "transitioned" You child has chosen a road but they have to undertsand that its a long journey and they are not "there" yet. They will need help and support to get there and the school need to give it.

I would be livid with your husband for knowingly going against your wishes. Filling in the application, supporting dc to change gcse papers etc.

Totally agree, I mean one of my biggest fears is that a girl kisses her/makes advances to her at a party/social event/wherever, thinking she’s a boy, what an absolute nightmare that would be 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Yes but at the same time you cannot legally change your gender under the age of 18 and the school cannot be lied to. Being honest about that and the fact that the school and her peers have a right to know that whilst his preferred pronouns are he/him and while he wishes to present as a male with a male name he was born female

the above cannot and should not be up for debate

Highly recommend the Bayswater Support Group to talk to other parents in similar situations:
https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

I have just seen your recent reply and I agree online you should be free to use ‘correct’ I.e sex based and reality based pronouns but I would hope in person you do use he/him because as much as it may come to nothing, the more you support the more open of a dialogue you will maintain with your child and therefore less likely to ‘lose’ them to online discourse and cutting loving and well meaning parents off!

That's because it isn't your life to control. Your husband is right about that, although wrong to have actually lied to the school, if that is indeed what he has done. You will end up alienating both your children if you act as if you are the big boss. The fact that you 'feel like crying' about the name issue and that you link back how you felt about your own childhood and not having a sister doesn't bode well. Your husband appears to be showing a lot more sense than you are.

I feel for your child because they're not going to pass for an instant. I understand your panic but tbh I think it will resolve itself very quickly.

A young teen possibly can pass, but by year 11 the difference in stature between boys and girls is obvious.

Even a slightly built boy is different from a girl - voice, shoulder width, strength, hand size.

Do they do PE in sixth form? If they do I don't know what the plan is for changing rooms but that's an obvious sticking point.

Wish you all the best of luck. I would honestly not contact the school, but I would say to DH and your child that you won't lie if they ask.

Why are the OP's wishes more important than her husband's?

They aren't, but it does sound like he's not given the whole situation much thought.
If he's anything like my DH he's probably taken the least path of resistance for what he thinks will be an easier life.

They are not more important but equally as important

Do the college have gender neutral or Unisex toilets as she isn’t legally allowed to use male single sex facilities

I don't understand why you've pandered to the request to have the new name and gender on the GCSE certificates, that has made life so much harder for you now. You need to step up and be the adult that your DH isn't prepared to be, starting with speaking to the new sixth form and making it clear that she is of the female sex and you expect her to not be in male single sex spaces such as toilets, which could be potentially dangerous for her.