DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

its 6th form she won’t be getting changed for sports unless she’s chosen a sports subject.

of you notify the 6th form yourself and it gets back it could cause a rift that may never heal. Sometimes you have to let young people figure it out.
it’s highly likely considering the day and age that schools will have a unisex single loo available for use.

but you could always call without divulging about DD to find out about facilities and what pastoral support is offered for trans students.

if she is more open with her DF then direct support via him and encourage her to think about logistics. Clearly she wants to try a pass but she hasn’t thought about the ramifications for herself or others. So all you can do is warn without trying to seem like your putting her off or bullying

Schools legally have to record the correct biological sex so it doesn’t matter how many tantrums your DC throws, the school need to be told the truth. (Certainly the case for state schools and I can’t imagine private schools being any different.)

So at no point has the school asked for her sex? That seems a little odd, but presumably you don’t need to inform the school if they haven’t actually asked for this information. If they do ask for sex then you tell the truth.

I assume her old school know. They will hold safeguarding records on her (on CPOMS or some other system). They will pass this to her new school. They will have access to all of that

IME schools and young people won’t bat an eyelid, and they’re are unlikely to be the first trans student they’ve dealt with. I think they’ll be fine - it may potentially narrow their friendship group, but they should hopefully find kindred spirits. (It’s sort of seems to depend how much of a big deal they want to make it into. It does seem to put other students off a bit if that’s all they want to talk about etc. So encourage them to have other interests - not just fixated on their own sense of who they are).

where it doesn’t work is if they are inflexible about respecting single sex spaces. If they are happy to use female spaces or a third space, I’m sure no one will mind at all. And if they’re a bit evangelical about it all, and it’s all they want to talk about - people get bored quite quickly.

She can't. Apart from anything else, it could be viewed as fraud, if the school has a sex balance to maintain. Anyone she forms a friendship/relationship with may also view it as fraud.

And as well as not being able to use mens toilets and changing rooms, what if there is a medical emergency and an ambulance is called for her, and the wrong information is given to the medics?

I have a cousin who is a woman trying to pass as a man. She has had hormones and surgery for years, and still looks like a little girl with a beard. She might fool some people, I don't know, but I think certainly less than half.

Thank you for all the comments already, I’m drafting up an email to the 6th form as we speak. Their office will be open next week due to GCSE results, admissions finalisations etc etc

I can’t believe I’ve allowed to be sidelined for so long

Regarding the hormones, I’ve spoken to DH and he’s sworn on our marriage that he hasn’t bought any for her/authorised anything, but we’ve noticed a slight change in voice recently, and I know that is a symptom of taking testosterone so we are worried she’s bought them off a dodgy place (FFS!) We will be checking her bank statements when she gets back from her outing with her friends

There will be a lot of chats going on and hopefully we can sort this out.

I don’t see what the problem is going in as a masculine girl but I suppose I don’t know anything anymore do I?

Not that we know of, is it worth getting a test booked?

Surely in the application you somewhere ticked sex. Unless you lied there?

Anyway, she won't pass. People will know she's female and assume she's trans or NB.
But the lieing (if you or she does) won't go down well.

No one ever announces what set they are, as we all just know.

Also schools happy to change backwards and forwards and use whatever name student prefers. Certainly mine was. Me Honestly, the bigger deal you make this into, the more entrenched they’ll become. I’ve watched lots of students go through this as a phase, but only a couple stick with it. Hard to say if it made them feel better about themselves or not.

it’s easy to say relax when it’s not your own child though, totally appreciate how hard this must be for you.

I was also wondering about the school maintaining a sex balance too. If her position was given on the assurance that she is a he then presumably the place could be revoked.

however, it doesn’t sound like the OP has been directly asked by the school whether she is a girl or boy.

I can’t imagine schools just guess at the sex of the pupils because some names are unisex, or foreign so the school may not recognise whether they are girl or boy names. It’s on the school to clarify.

Thing is, she cannot use the boys toilets, she cannot change with the boys, that's the law and the school have to abide by it.

She also should absolutely not be playing contact sports with the boys - she could end up seriously injured. It is also likely to be against the various sporting bodies rules that the school will be abiding by.

The school do need to know she's a biological female, and as an under 18 I think that's your responsibility to inform them. They also need to know exactly that so she's not outed in an uncontrolled and 'worst case' way.

Also, if she's thinking of 'passing' is she binding her breasts? That can cause serious health problems, in case she is and you're / she's not aware.

I know, I’m planning to speak to the 6th form next week now, I need to do something about this. And I mean especially when kids get to 16/17/18 when puberty is well underway.

Thanks for commenting.

She filled the application out with her father, I’m 99% she chose the male option 🤦‍♀️

I can understand going to college and saying your transgender but I think it would be very hard for a girl to pass as a boy and think people wouldnt notice. Does she really think she will be able to do this. Agree with the toilet situation and the period issues she would face has she really thought about this. Does she really think that the college doesn't need to know that is ridiculous of course they need to know.

The application was filled with her father, as she knew I would fill it in honestly. I am almost sure it was filled in as male. Once DH is home from work he’s agreed to go through it with me and show me it. I’ve decided to speak to the sixth form next week to try and rectify this.

What do you mean 'she refuses to let us have any communication with the school to let them know'? She isn't gatekeeper of their contact details. You are the ones paying the fees. You are the responsible adults here. She is the average hormonal, entitled teen, assuming she has the right to control others without any responsibilities of her own.

No.

Contact the school if you need and want to. tell them what you, as responsible, level-headed adults, think they need to know. Use discretion as to whether you tell her this has happened. As with all things to do with offspring - if the responsibility for a decision falls at your feet, the right to execute that responsibility as you see fit is yours.

the school will be familiar with trans but she needs to inform them, or you do if she doesnt

OP are you and your child aware of the recent Supreme Court ruling on sex and gender? She will not be able to use male toilets or changing rooms. At all. Ever. It is illegal for her to do so. She will have to use the toilets and changing rooms of her biological sex (female) or single sex facilities (which will need to be agreed with the school as they may have to sort out this facility for her if there is none currently available).

And as others have said…she WILL NOT ‘PASS’! Nobody does! Many people have conformed to the ‘be kind’ culture but honestly, this has now peaked and there is much less tolerance. Your child needs to be aware of this and understand that she is likely to experience some kickback (and be ready for it), so pretending to be male is just not an option.

So they filled out the form for a fee paying school and signed it knowing they were lying.

Oh dear.

It depends where the school is re bullying. If you’re in London, she’ll just be seen as another trans kid, and everyone’s usually ok round her while they wait for it to wear off.

No idea how other places behave, but DH needs to make one thing crystal clear. She deserves respect but doesn’t have the right not to be offended. Most people are polite, though.

This is hard, but she has no right to instil doublethink and coercive control on others’ opinions. So when a pupil who’s caught sight of a slumped body says ‘that girl’s fainted’ in good faith, that pupil’s being honest even if DD doesn’t see it like that.

She should be fine though. Anyone rude can be told off by the staff.

Thanks for commenting, I know I’ve tried to explain she can be called whatever she wants, but we need to let them know what she used to be called and what her birth sex was.

Gosh I am in a pickle aren’t I 🤦‍♀️

Schools are used to dealing with this.

honestly it’s at the point that more kids are trans than are not (not really but you know what I mean).

she won’t pass, not in a million years.
they’ll have a policy.

my school had toilets just for trans students.
if she’s sixth form there may not be any sports so there may not be changing room issues.

they’ll have seen it before (many many times)

Then as is often the case on MN, you have a DH problem!
Is he unaware of the Supreme Court ruling? Although possibly you applied before that.

I did 6th form applications this year, I think I had to sign to say the info I'd given was correct. Someone needs to tell the school. And you'll be the bad guy if you do, I presume.

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughters situation OP. She sounds like she's really struggling. She can call herself what she likes and dress how she likes but it's not morally right for her to lie, especially as it opens up the boys at her college to abuse (undressing for example in front of the other sex without consenting). It's also against the law.