DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

What are those medical reasons?

I think posters who say that a girl can pass for a boy by wearing boy clothes and short hair have watched too many movies 😂 It's not actually possible in real life. The poster who posted a photo of his male-looking trans partner - he is clearly a long way down the road with hormones and mastectomy. That's a totally different situation to the OP's daughter.

I’m sorry you have such a combative relationship with your DCs.

My teenagers trust me to advise, set anporopriate boundaries, guide them successfully and safely through to adulthood and that I have their best interests at the heart of everything. Even if they don’t like my decision at times, we discuss it further and they understand why ‘x’ is not ok. We discuss things openly and honestly.

I wonder how you would deal with a scenario if one of yours wanted a tattoo or to go something dangerous?

Do you give them your blessing so as ‘let them find out for themself that it doesn't work’ and just pray that they survive or don’t end up with a hideous tattoo (for eg.) they will regret? That’s quite a high risk strategy. Do you have any boundaries for them?

I can’t think of much more life changing than a girl telling the world she is male, changing her name, wanting to access male spaces and presumably sports and require her teachers to ignore the law and all basic safeguarding rules.

Any one of those activities could also lead directly to further life changing consequences like rape, serious injury or trauma. She will experience stress if her teachers and peers fail to use the correct words she requires and have a constant feeling of jeopardy at the idea of being ‘outed’. Much of this perpetuated by trans activists to alienate vulnerable kids from their parents.

Her ‘identity’ as a male, if trusted adults agree that she’s correct, is also quite likely to lead to irreversible medical steps to change her appearance, voice and ruin her health and fertility. I’d say that’s pretty life changing and ‘affirming her identity’ puts her on a path which is very hard to leave.

With the greatest respect, if you think my approach is so terrible, maybe you need to reconsider some parenting basics like talking to your children with honesty and boundaries? My kids are successful and productive young people and we love spending time together so I must be doing something right.

Yes, sadly there are numerous accounts of lesbian clubs and organisations being attacked, infiltrated and shut down by trans activist.

It is a very destructive ideology, bolstering itself with vulnerable young girls (and some boys) like OPs DD to prop up the narrative that the groups of men (many are heterosexual middle aged who have already had their marriages and children, some are homosexual with repressed homophobia) have had an innate condition since childhood.

The medical and emotional harm done to so many kids in the name of this ideology is heinous and will cause so much heartbreak in the future.

nope, Bisexual is an attraction to both sexes.

This is a sealion post where we are supposed to 'prove it'.

Given that sex is relevant to pretty much every condition in some way (when monitoring someone, a reading that could be considered normal for a normal might not be for a male and vice versa for all manner of issues - so it could be pretty much anything when you are looking for a problem and you don't know what it is).

I suggest you do some research of your own rather than expecting us to do the hard work.

I'm not going to indulge demanding posts like this because it's easy to Google and there's so many things where this would be relevant id probably have to be a qualified doctor to cover everything.

So many posters with so little knowledge of safeguarding.

I find it incredibly offensive that you seek to destroy sex based language and remove the language women require to fight against discrimination. It is offensive that you reduce women to regressive sex stereotypes and expression, that you suggest a mastectomy makes someone less female. That you support your daughter to destroy her body for the unachieveable and scold others who refuse to support this harm. I hope she does not invade males spaces.

DD has been to hospital a few times this year with stomach issues. First question is always when was your last period, could you be pregnant.
Didn’t a woman in Canada die because she never told the doctors she was a woman and a gynaecological issue was missed, ectopic?

Sorry this may not have been clear as post is in response to another. But im not saying there isnt a medical reason to disclose your sex in a medical setting.

Im saying none of those are reasons a school has a medical reason for knowing someones sex. The responses I've had were for menstruation accidents or if a defibrillator was needed. Id argue neither of those situations is avoided, mitigated or helped if your school knows your sex first.

Im not saying dont tell the school.im saying you arent obliged to for "medical reasons"

The point that you are missing is that safeguarding is not just for this pupil, it is for also for all of the other pupils in the school.

Those pupils also have the right to privacy and dignity, and this is backed by the SC ruling.

The OP's DC can identify however they want, but that should n't contravene other pupils rights and yes this also includes dating and the ability to give consent as per my previous post upthread.

THIS

The rights of one pupil to use any space they fancy
DO NOT
outweigh the rights of other pupils to their single sex spaces

same as schools do not allow pupils to identify into the year group they fancy
or identify into top set maths
or identify onto the netball squad

You are talking such utter, utter nonsense.

But do carry on.

You are however obliged to so that the school can carry out its lawful safeguarding obligations to the children in their care.

If the student collapsed with an ectopic pregnancy, it would be handy to know they were female and pregnancy was a possibility

By your definition gay men don’t exist. Because everyone is gay there is therefore no actual gay.

Maybe I’m gay. What is hetro in your definition book?

If you’re thinking about role models:

Suzi Ruffle is an absolutely hilarious comedian with loads of good clips on socials which don’t have anything to do with gender at all. She’s on the masc end of the spectrum and obviously lesbian and is well presented and attractive and very much in the public eye.

Susan Calman is another comic who I really rate. Not at all girly or “pretty” but talks quite a bit about being a woman and touches on feminist issues. Might be a bit too middle aged for your daughter?

If she reads, pretty much anything by Sandi Toksvig or Sarah Walters has strong masculine female leads in it. Focus is on lesbian relationships rather than hetro ones. Read the Sarah Waters ones yourself first to check you’re happy to hand them across - they’re quite sex filled.

Thinking about film, Dallas is one of the best known lesbian romances and has an unapologetically masc female roofer as one of the main characters. The fact she’s female and successful in a man’s world is a huge part of the story so no gender woo. But, again watch it first as it’s pretty graphic.

And are you gay or trans ? Because you seem to feel you know a lot about these issues too?

No

So you're saying males who are attracted to other males, exclusively, just haven't met the right girl (where the right girl is one who says she's a boy)?

A female claiming to be a gay man is profoundly homophobic

I know a man who claims to be a lesbian 😬….I find it offensive. A lesbian is someone who’s biologically female, a gay man is someone who’s biologically male.

you mean like kidnap? Or abuse? This might be the most awful thing I’ve seen on mumsnet

I don’t think she did any of those things?