DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

I agree that all of those groups could describe themselves as gay men, yes.

I also don't think which of those groups a particular gay man falls into is all that relevant, unless you are considering dating them.

'I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women. That was certainly true of me.'

Juno Dawson, trans author

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/juno-dawson-attitude-magazine-interview-transgender-gay-man-lgbt-trans-woman-a7752701.html

Terrible case of internalised homophobia.

So when you say 'As a gay man ...' in this discussion it's meaningless.

There are more permutations because you might only be attracted to men who 'identify as' men. You might not fancy men who say they are women or non-binary, or who say they don't have a gender identity.

That’s not a bad point actually, at least for my specific earlier post. I’m not sure for the thread in general. You are right though that my comment that the PP’s partner was clearly man enough to me (or whatever my precise words were) would stand whether or not I said am a gay man.

You got me.

I don’t think you need to get into categories whom someone doesn’t find attractive, as I don’t think there being a group you don’t find attractive prevents you from being gay. Very few gay men find ALL men attractive, just as very few straight women do. We all have some people we are not attracted to.

we can probably take this chat into PMs if you like, as it probably isn’t strictly relevant to the OP’s question.

please don’t underestimate this issue , I did and I regret it. Read this guide
https://genspect.org/when-your-child-says-im-trans-the-new-genspect-parent-starter-pack/

Except it isn't. The couple of trans people I know are all with straight partners, married with children. Astounding normal lives.

That's a female !

Doesn't look like one but she is one

And did your partner give you consent to 'out' them online?! I imagine transgender individuals don't like their photos being shared for talking points which is what you're doing.. Anyone can save that photo

As a mum.of a biologically MALE son who fancies boys.. Yes it would be relevant and he'd certainly think so if one of his female friends suddenly claimed to be a gay male . Isn't it Insulting to homosexuals.

Reading between the lines from what op has said the school have asked for her sex and daughter has persuaded op’s dh to lie about it. changing your name by deed poll does not change your sex and in any case dh is still a minor so if your dp has gone along with this lie he could get into serious trouble and the school would be justifiably furious as they are legally obliged to provide single sex toilets. I doubt they would object to a girl with a boys name but you’d have to discuss toilets and changing rooms with them and they would have to have the facilities to accommodate her or she would need to use the girls facilities. I also wouldn’t assume that a private school won’t expect a six form girl (or boy) to do sports. Some certainly do. I hope you get this resolved op but you’re right - open and honest is the only way. You & DH need to get on the same page with this if at all possible. Good luck.

We have 18 year old twins who just finished sixth form at different schools. I can’t speak for all schools but honestly I have the vibe this generation don’t really care how the other kids dress / what sex they want to be. I have definately seen transboys / trans men walking around - my kids have not even mentioned them. My daughter had been to three high schools and the first two schools were all girls schools with the uniforms being skirts … except for the girls that were transgender and they were wearing trousers. All schools seem to have some non gender specific toilet options too.

I think though I would have a private chat with the head of Sen seeking advice - they tend to be more supportive. That’s the whole point of private schools you get better access to teacher support as they have a higher teacher / student ratio so worth accessing it

nonsense

There is the slight issue of breaking the law which the school could take them to court over.

What!!! What an irresponsible comment. You think it’s ok to lie to the school? and I can assure you that if there is a medical emergency of any kind not knowing what sex someone is could potentially be lethal.

This may be a passing phase in your daughter's life or it might be permanent, who knows? But my feeling is that, either way, she will have healthier relationships with others throughout her life if she gets into the habit of honesty about who she is, i.e. female but identifying as male, instead of living in stealth and pretending to be male sexed from birth, with the ever present possibility of being outed and evoking annoyance because people feel deceived.
And the best time to start that is now, while she still has loving parents to help her over any emotional bumps in the road that she encounters.
This is quite apart from any legal or contractual obligations you may have to the school.

Why do you need to know?

That makes no sense if you actually consider it. So 80% of the people who wanted to transition would actually be heterosexual if allowed to transition . Which mirrors the percentage in the non transitioned population?

Doesnt actually prove your point at all does it ? It doesn’t prove they transitioned because of internalised homophobia at all. It just demonstrates that if they were able to live as the sex they are they would fit the usual statistics regarding sexuality.
if so many trans people only transition due to internalised homophobia how do you explain that most live their lives for many years has openly and proudly gay before being able to transition ?

God almighty, guys. Our generation (in our 40s) may consider this a terrible tragedy, but the OP's child's peers won't bat an eyelid that a trans student is joining the school. A geeky guy with big glasses will have higher chance of being bullied than a transboy in a high school nowadays.

OP, you're risking your relationship with your child if you don't respect their wishes. It doesn't matter what you believe, or what biological reality you want to apply. Your child wants to identify as a boy/man and use masculine gender pronouns. Personally I can't see all those terrible things you mention happening, because modern schools are ready for this. I would be very, very surprised if your child was the only trans-identifying student in the school. In fact, I bet there are several. Your child may actually find a group where they'll fit right in.

Would you consider, even slightly, that your child may actually not have as many problems as you think, and may even find acceptance and happiness as a trans person? They may even find it's not their thing and change later. We don't know. What we do know is that, right now, your child's gender identity is felt so strong that they are ready to cut you out of their lives if you don't support them.

Do you really want to lose your child?

Let them live their life and confront their challenges. And be there to support them when they fall, and cheer them when they get up. That is what a parent is for.

You do realise that many many trans teens don’t realise this and in fact expect and hope otherwise?

op, what is clear is you have a legal obligation to the school and a safeguarding obligation to your child to make sure they have the correct details, and your husband needs to get a grip. The school csn register them as preferred name Josh but they must know for her gcse registration and their safeguarding that they are biologically and legally female.

Incorrect

Such scaremongering and emotional blackmail.