DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

He is now my son and I find it offensive that you chose to use she and her in your reply just because you do not agree with it. Obviously he knows his biological sex can never change, he is not stupid and he does not need someone like you pointing it out to us.

I’m glad you are quite relaxed about such things, people getting abusive in the pursuit of their aims is partly how we got into this mess in the first place but are you aware that if you include females in the definition of a gay man (and conversely males in the definition of lesbian), it actually breaks the definition of same sex attracted in the protected characteristic of Sexual Orientation and while you might feel secure that doesn’t affect you directly, it does negatively impact the legal protections for all homosexual people?

The real life effects of this are being born out in countries like Australia and NZ where it is now illegal for lesbians to have a female only gathering. In practice this is happening over here as particularly lesbian groups are constantly targeted by activists and pressure placed on authorities to prevent their gatherings. This could well become very relevant for OPs daughter.

Lesbians are bearing the brunt of this, so you feel sympathy for them?

@Mapletree1985 and @aurynne but the issue isn’t the child going in as a trans male and being clear that is what they identify as - a discussion of whether they should go in with the new name etc is a separate one.
The issue is that they want to go down as male and the relevant legislation is the Gender Recognition Act 2004 where you cannot legally change your gender on a passport or for things like this until you are at least 18 and satisfied the relevant requirements of a GRC
The school HAVE to be aware that he was born female it is as simple as that. Then they need to bring in the guidance they have based on the other legislation

I agree no matter how I would
handle it as a parent having worked in a girls school where there were 3 ftm students it is something that can be dealt with and something peers understand

Even Stonewall etc would be advising that they have to be honest about this it is simply not up for discussion because the implications are fairly wide reaching.

that said I would be appalled actually if a school didn’t realise once results were in given the amount of information they should have

Encouraging parental alienation is cultlike.

It's not normal. It's a red flag.

To suggest that parents who are concerned that their child is making decisions that put them at risk of life long health issues, at risk of sexual abuse and at risk emotionally at age 16 are 'controlling', 'abusive' or 'bigoted' in anyway is appalling and dangerous.

They are parents doing what they are supposed to do - parent.

Given rates of desistance in this age group parents are very right to suggest caution and patience too.

Doing anything else is irresponsible - but no parent who just wildly like their child do this without question will EVER say this. But they make it harder to desist and make their child much more vulnerable.

It's awful that there is such pressure from activists to transition when it really won't be the right thing for many. That's the tragedy and the scandal.

These kids are nothing but collateral damage to the ideology. No one cares about their well being so long as the ones who transition can trample all over everyone else and get their own way.

I agree. Blindly affirming, cheerleading parents who want to be their child’s friend is a gateway to interventions that will shorten their life span and cause physical complications on the way.

Yay! To increased cardiovascular events, incontinence, altered fertility, vaginal and uterine atrophy!

Speaking carefully and with the greatest respect to you, this does encapsulate much of the issue.

You believe that your child has a gender identity which in some situations (but not all) supersedes their sex.

Many members of society either don’t believe that gender identity is a thing, or don’t believe that it supersedes our sex at all.

We both have an equal right to hold that belief. People who don’t believe in gender identity have the right to use female language to refer to a person we know to be female.

Unfortunately you are in a position where you find that offensive but as OPs DD is very likely to find, there are lots of people who won’t or can’t comply with her language demands. The DD is very unlikely to ‘pass’ as a male and therefore her peers will ‘say what they see’ (to borrow a popular phrase). She will be referred to as she or her and it is unreasonable for anyone to demand or guilt trip people to do otherwise.

I’m sorry you have a belief that deems our usual language offensive but we don’t agree it’s offensive and that’s not something we are prepared to change.

It just demonstrates that if they were able to live as the sex they are they would fit the usual statistics regarding sexuality.

They would be 'normal', do you mean? Do you realise how much this sounds like an argument for 'transing away the gay'?

Doesnt actually prove your point at all does it ? It doesn’t prove they transitioned because of internalised homophobia at all.

My post was in response to your assertions that people are confusing sexuality and gender. My point was, as I said at the top of my post:

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things but they are linked in a couple of ways.

However I do think that, among other factors, internalised homophobia is part of the picture for young people who seek transition. Another factor is having homophobic parents who do not want a gay child. You've just demonstrated exactly how the thinking works.

if so many trans people only transition due to internalised homophobia how do you explain that most live their lives for many years has openly and proudly gay before being able to transition ?

The figures I provided are for children and young people up to the age of 18. Most late transitioners are heterosexual men. 'Trans' is not one thing.

if they were able to live as the sex they are

Just to return to this curious phrasing - we are often accused of not understanding the difference between sex and gender. We are told that nobody seriously claims people can change sex. Do you think they can?

'the sex they are' is their birth sex. I very much hope that as many of these young people as possible find a way to 'live as the sex they are' because the alternative is not possible and trying to achieve it can lead to complete loss of fertility, loss of sexual function and a whole host of long term medical issues.

Do you mean it's not relevant in a dating context? That a gay man does not need to know the sex of a person they are considering dating?

Bras need to be removed/cut off to use a defibrillator, as would a binder if the OP's DD is using one, so her breasts will be exposed - its not just opening a shirt a bit.

I wish these threads wouldn't get bogged down in people arguing. It dilutes the thread and makes finding actual practical advice for parents informed by professional experience very difficult to find amid the posts arguing about what makes a woman and so on. That is not what the OP is here for. She needs advice on how to approach this with the school and ensure her child has the right support.

It is so important that parents have calm, measured, factual advice about how to communicate with their children's schools and advocate for the right support for their child when they have claimed a trans identity. This issue is not going to go away and regardless of what we may feel about trans identities, a child presenting as trans needs to be cared for and treated with dignity and respect.

For any child in distress, what's important is

a) they feel heard
b) they feel supported
c) they feel loved
d) they feel accepted

As a parent you may not believe it is possible to change sex and you may believe that this is all a silly phase influenced by social media or whatever - but children who believe themselves to be trans are often in huge amounts of mental distress and pushing back against what they believe to be true about themselves and denying their reality is not going to help them. It will merely turn them away from their parents and towards online groups that will affirm them and may encourage them to seek hormones, binders and so on that they can procure in secret online and end up causing themselves physical harm as a result.

Keeping channels of communication open is therefore vital. Shutting them down through denying or denigrating what they are feeling is not going to change how they feel and will simply encourage them to pursue more extreme and secretive avenues of support.

I am deeply uncomfortable with and troubled by the increasing numbers of children I see jumping on the trans bandwagon as a way to try and deal with feeling out of place in the world. However, I would never tell a child presenting with a trans identity that I felt this way. Surrounding them with love and acceptance while ensuring they have robust mental health support is key to getting them through what for many will be a short-lived phase, with the parent-child relationship in tact.

Acceptance does not equal affirmation.

@EnidSpyton i totally agree with you.
I stopped posting a while back on these threads due to the bun fights. A recent thread showed 70% of posters didn't want to show trans people respect or compassion.

I have a FTM. We don't use male pronouns or new names in our household. I have a masculine presenting DC. However it wasn't always this way. The sadness and poor mental health my DC went through at the height of their wish to transition was heartbreaking. They were captured online after an unhappy school move.
They have changed their mind re surgery and hormones.
They still hate their body (very curvy) but want their own children.
My DC has a mixed bag of friends, some LGBT, most straight.
School was not difficult from six form.

@speckledgreenfrogs i absolutely do think you need to inform the school of your dcs biological sex. They are a minor.
Schools have heard it all before. University too. My DC has gynaecological issues so it was essential to have access to the school nurse.
If you child has chosen this life I think they need to grow a very thick skin. It's difficult everyday. There is huge predujudice and getting even a part time job is hard for trans people. Employers don't want the drama.
Be supportive but also read everything you can particularly re cross sex hormones. My DC has a friend who has recently been hospitalised for the effects of taking testosterone for 5 years.
If you want any help DM me.

Is still dont think what if we need to use a defibrillator on you one day is a medical reason the school need to know. A. Most people never need one and B. If a trans student did need one, noone least of all the student or person trying to get the heart back in rhythms first thought would be eek this student is trans. Everyone would just be focused on the medical emergency

Again not saying dont tell the school, im saying the reason for telling the school is nothing to do with medical reasons. The school doesnt have a medical reason to know.

Actually it was in VI form when I started vomiting and flooding with my periods.

I'm not sure someone wanting to transition, even socially, is going to want to take hormonal contraception which is what you need to control periods.

Have you ever used defib? I have, many times and in an emergency a bra is cut off. Yes it is unlikely but it isn't just removing a shirt.

Broken bones can be a side effect of hormone treatment, OP's child is 16 but they well be 18 before they leave VI form.

I agree with some things you say but when you get people who are very invested in other peoples children adopting a trans identity and use terrible lies and emotional blackmail to put pressure on the OP, I think that needs correcting robustly.

As with any parent whose child gets involved in a group with cult like practices and thinking such as extreme emotional blackmail, parental alienation and victim complex , great care must be taken to get the right advice and outcome.

Don't disagree that they are possible. Although they could use a copper coil, im not sure if you still menstrate with those. But I still dont think schools really need much medical info about any student. Allergies, diabetes, things like injuries that may exclude them from something but largely I think your medical history is between the person or child and parent and the Dr.

Medically you dont need to disclose your sex. All those situations could happen at work, and people dont always disclose their sex to their employer.

I do think it is better for everyone if trans students do tell the school but I dont believe theres any medical reason they have to.

Why is this? In case they’re attacked?

Sorry could you expand your question? Do you mean the are lesbians banned from having a female only gathering?

If do, it’s because men who say they are lesbians have had the law changed to ban a female only gathering that excludes them.

@Laura95167

There absolutely is a need to know a child's sex for medical care within a school environment.

Many health conditions and bodily functions differ between men and women.

Knowing a person's sex can help to diagnose what is happening.

For example, if a child collapses with severe stomach pain, if that child is a girl, then pregnancy is a consideration, whereas that would never be a consideration with a boy. Likewise in women, heart attacks present differently to how they present in men.

In order to provide the best and most prompt care to children - we need to know their biological sex. Believing otherwise is ridiculous and suggests a worrying lack of knowledge about human biology.

Wow, there is so much wrong with this post that it's hard to know where to start!

Firstly, the paragraph in bold is spot on right.

Secondly, this teenager isn't trying to make life-changing decisions. He wants to present as male, not have gender reassignment surgery (which simply wouldn't be available to him anyway). As pps have said, this won't be a big deal to his peer group.

And reading your final paragraph, it's hard to believe you have ever met a teenager (let alone have 2 DDs)! If my daughter had tried something like this at that age, opposing her would have been the quickest way to ensure that she would go steaming ahead regardless of any or all consequences!

Supporting them and letting them find out for themself that it doesn't work is the only constructive way forward.

The evidence shows that social transition is not a neutral act.

My DD (15) doesn’t automatically steam ahead with something if I oppose her. We need to be very careful with that kind of narrative as parental alienation is the name of the game for TRAs targeting vulnerable girls.

Yes that’s what I meant - is there nothing women can do alone? Even being lesbians the men want to join in?

@Ddakji i agree with you to a certain extent
My DD did threaten suicide and sadly tried it after I refused to pay for surgery abroad. She has no real recollection of why she did it but there was an attack when she was much younger.

I wish schools had counsellors and offered whole person education.
Everything is control and conform. And then they go to sixth form or college and that nonsense stops and students get respect and inclusion.

Glad to see the posts criticising those threatening alienation from our teenagers if we ever oppose the notion that their body is wrong and a sex change is the cure.
The whole point of adolescence is to make crap decisions and learn from them without coming to too much harm - something we all struggle with in parenting teenagers. The Cass Review details how the majority of this vulnerable group also have a range of other mental health challenges that until recently have been ignored because of pressure from transactivists to address only the trans issue (see Cass Review & the book Time to Think by Hannah Barnes for evidence).

As a result of Cass, things are changing and in the future these children must have their mental health, Autism and other issues addressed alongside their belief that their bodies are wrong. The power of transactivists to influence child healthcare is diminishing so it's worth remembering that they often descend on places like Mumsnet where parents with concerns about safeguarding their children (like the OP) gather.
See the numerous posts pushing parental alienation and debunked statistics about suicide to frighten parents into complying with what for some children will be a terrible outcome. Untested for purpose drugs, brutal experimental surgery all of which will leave them infertile, with a lack of sexual function, many incontinent and resulting in them being medical patients for life.

Nobody should be telling parents to keep quiet in the face of this - and certainly not on a parenting site.

There's lots of good advice now that counters the transactivist mantras. This is by a clinical psychologist about the psychological harm that happens when teenagers are unthinkingly affirmed in a lie - well worth a read:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

There are plenty of medical reasons why a school needs to know the sex of its students as others have already explained but in regards to the defibrillator, if the girl uses a binder then they will know that clothing shears will definitely be needed in a defibrillator situation (not all defibrillators come with them)