DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

So much!

Boils down to:

Lie to me about my sex or I’ll harm myself or cut you off later.

Oh stop it.
No we don't 'know right now' that she's ready to cut the OP out if she doesn't support her.
You just made that up yourself. Shameful.

Aurynne is right. For the time being, trans is how your child sees herself. Cutting off unsupportive parents is often seen as a necessary rite of passage in the trans community - the more you try to stop her, the more you will drive her away, and she'll have plenty of online 'friends' cheering her on as she eliminates you from her life. Yes, you can stand on your rights as a parent right now, but in two years she'll be eighteen, and you will have blown up your relationship with her.

Nevertheless, you can have boundaries in this. My own would be: "You have the right to choose how you wish to live. I'll use your chosen name, I'll use your preferred pronouns, I'll treat you as you wish to be treated and I won't 'out' you in public, but I will not help you get medical treatments you might regret later, I won't lie for you if there could be legal ramifications, and you must understand that I don't believe human beings can change sex; I will always see you as a girl and woman, but I will do my best never to remind you of this."

Your own boundaries may well be different.

Think of this trans-identity she's embraced as a problematic boyfriend she's desperately in love with, but whom you know is bad news. The more you try to break them up, the more you'll drive her into his arms. If you refrain from alienating her now, you can be there to catch her when she falls.

My DN and my friend's daughter both came out as trans as young teens. Both families said, "Hell no."

Lots of drama, tears, etc. but families held fast.

Both girls got over it and now are healthy, functioning young women. DN is a lesbian and friend's daughter is graduating from a prestigious university this year. Both are fine. Both regret their trans experimentation and both are grateful to parents who held the line.

Another GC here, I'm not anti trans, I am pro women and I believe single sex spaces should be just that, single sex.

Transition for some people is life changing and absolutely the right thing. The problems start with puberty blockers being given to children as a 'starter' for cross sex hormones. Without puberty, if you do go down the full transition route it makes 'bottom surgery' more difficult.

TRAs are the problem.

OP

How is she going to manage with practical things like going to the toilet and handling her periods?

Does she bind her breasts?

Be totally honest with her, does she 'pass'?

Which name is on her GCSE certificates? They should match her A Level certificates otherwise things will be complicated if/when she applies to uni.

The school / VI Form have a duty under the Data Protection Act to keep data safe and accurate, how can they do that if they don't have the correct data?

What if something happens at VI form like an accident? A male first aider might not want to be treating a biological female as it can open him up to allegations.

Will anyone from her school be attending the same VI form?

Inform the school of your trans-son, no big deal. Use his pronouns and new name. Love and support your new son.

You will have to send a copy of passport and/or birth certificate to school. I’m slightly surprised they haven’t been asking for this already. Schools have know who the pupils are for safeguarding reasons and they do always check.

Just tell the school and the background. You’re paying the fees and they need to know. How she handles it is up to her

Although my son (21) is trans and he made it clear who he wanted to be from a very young age, and has been transitioning for many years (has had top surgery and on testosterone so far)., it is not easy to advise.
You cant really hide your biological sex from places such as school and college (not talking about the students but for all the paperwork etc) and I believe the college should know.

In regards to the passport a change of name deed is enough to change the name but the sex marker will still show they are female, unless they have a GRC certificate which is almost impossible to get and even those who have medically transitioned for years get refused or a letter from a medical professional confirming the gender change is likely to be permanent and again they only give this if they have been transitioning under a gender service.

My only advise is to be supportive, no one knows how this will pan out in the future, not everyone who claims to be trans actually goes on to transition. I was supportive of my child even though I honestly felt such grief at loosing my daughter and gaining a son.

Lots of assumptions there, I didn't say anything like that. I suggested that if the op were concerned they should seek out help and support, not just go behind their back/do what they think is right arbitrarily over something that could have deep consequences for tht child. The child is 16, not 2. From the OPs language throughout, it does not sound to me like they are parenting respectfully and taking time to try and understand, guide and support their child. Normally in that situation, from my experience, it's very unlikely that they will have a a strong relationship with the child when the child is able to move out and never look back.

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful analysis 🤔

Is she planning to unlawfully destroy the boys single sex spaces by making them mixed sex and ignoring the need for boys to consent to this destruction of the privacy and dignity?

I would focus on your relationship with your child OP. Whatever happens at school will ultimately be fine. So what if it comes out? Why is that such a problem? Surely the bigger issue is that you’re driving a wedge between you and your child and they no longer want to spend time with you?

if things go wrong at school, at the moment, you’re not the one your child will come to for support and understanding. Is your stance on all this really worth that?!

Normally in that situation, from my experience, it's very unlikely that they will have a a strong relationship with the child when the child is able to move out and never look back

But how can you have a strong relationship with your child if you are lying to them? And about something as fundamental as their sex?

when the child is able to move out and never look back

Not so much when relying on parents to pay the school fees.

I hope your daughter knows she can never change her sex regardless of cosmetic surgery and cross sex hormones, and that males are entitled to the privacy and dignity of single sex spaces that she has no right to use.

True.

Sadly there are very few qualified practitioners like psychiatrists who are objective about this. Dr Az Haseem is a noteable exception.
The government are currently mistakenly engaged in trying to make objective exploration extremely difficult with the threat of it being illegal (with very badly defined definitions) under the activist led ‘Conversion Therapy’ laws being pushed through.

Despite having produced no remotely recent accounts or examples of any kind of widespread practice of gay conversion therapy that is not already illegal, they insist on including ‘gender identity’ under the protections which means it will be almost impossible to talk to a child about the fact they may not be ‘really a boy’ (if female) as that will be considered an attempt at conversion therapy. This law is a Trojan horse designed to embed gender ideology and prevent kids getting the mental health assistance they need.

Dr Haseem has already been targeted by activists who posed as a patient in order to ‘catch him out’ and reported him to his regulator.

I can only answer for myself and not all gay man and women, but I would not be remotely offended. My own view is that transmen are men and so if one finds other men attractive that makes them gay, but that may not be your view or the view of the majority on Mumsnet. My priority would be to support the individual in feeling comfortable with the gender and sexuality they identify with rather that stressing about any theoretical impact it may or may not have on me.

Of course there may be some gay men and women whose views differ. We’re actually quite a varied bunch.

If the policy involves allowing children to use facilities of the opposite sex or to attempt to conceal their sex from people that need to know then yes, it is very much about demanding that the head teacher change their policy or face consequences.

The Equality Act is overarching legislation along with the the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 and School Premises Regulations 2012, all of which follow the recent Supreme Court judgement that sex for the purposes of the EA (and by definition the rest of the laws) is biological and can’t be modified by a GRC. Children can’t have a GRC so the law has always been clear that it’s based on biological sex. Schools got confused because activist organisations lied to them.

PP was raising a point about the child’s sexuality which is relevant as a) she is a teenager well into puberty and b) she needs to understand the serious legal repercussions of lying about her sex to prospective partners which from her actions so far, it would seem that she plans to.

Just as a side comment, I’m afraid a gay man might not have much insight into the mind of a distressed teenage girl. I have two dds so I know many of the issues girls face very well.

@BundleBoogie : Just as a side comment, I’m afraid a gay man might not have much insight into the mind of a distressed teenage girl. I have two dds so I know many of the issues girls face very well.

Thank you for the side comment, but I don’t understand the link between my sexuality and whether or not I have children. As it happens, @BundleBoogie , I also have two DDs, aged 15 and 16. As I said before, we’re quite a varied bunch and making assumptions is rarely constructive.

Let them live their life and confront their challenges. And be there to support them when they fall, and cheer them when they get up. That is what a parent is for.

No, a parent is there to be the adult and prevent the child from making life changing decisions before they are ready. There is a very good reason that tattoos, marriage, drinking etc are illegal for under 18s.

There is also a very good reason why the NHS won’t sterilise a woman under 30 as they know very well that minds change as life goes on.

Pretending that you agree that it is ok for your child to tell everyone they are the opposite sex entrenched that ‘identity’ and makes it less likely that the child will grow up to accept their body as it is.

I didn’t link your sexuality with whether or not you have children, I linked your sex with insight into the opposite sex.

Cutting off unsupportive parents is often seen as a necessary rite of passage in the trans community - the more you try to stop her, the more you will drive her away, and she'll have plenty of online 'friends' cheering her on as she eliminates you from her life. Yes, you can stand on your rights as a parent right now, but in two years she'll be eighteen, and you will have blown up your relationship with her.

This is parental alienation perpetrated by activists. Organisations like Stonewall, Mermaids etc have encouraged children to threaten and emotionally blackmail their parents into doing what they want. This is utterly evil and has led to parents being forced to allow their children to be seriously medically or psychologically harmed by affirming and solidifying a trans identity that in most cases would not last and the child would grow up to be happy in their body.

The Cass review found that the vast majority of kids will desist from their claims to be the opposite sex but are far less likely to if the parents/trusted adults have ‘affirmed’ them. Medical harm often ensues.