DD wants to “pass” as male at sixth form - how to handle this?

[speckledgreenfrogs]

Hey everyone, made a throwaway account for this.
For simplicity, I’ll be using sex based pronouns when talking about my DC, forgive me if I word anything wrong here.

So about 2 years ago, my daughter (14 at the time) came out to our family as trans. We (me and DH) asked her what exactly that meant to her, and she said she’d like to be called a new male name and be use male pronouns, DH and DS11 bless them, have abided by this but for me as her mother it’s not that easy, I remember the day we found out we were having a girl, I was so happy, especially because I don’t have any sisters, only 2 brothers (which of course I wouldn’t change for the world, but it would have been nice to have a sister) and the memories of me and DH picking her name and middle names, honestly these memories almost make me cry now. (After many times of DD screaming she hates her birth names, and saying DS “doesn’t realise how lucky he is” (I was NOT happy with that comment at all, what the hell???)

Apologies if this is coming off as a rant, I don’t know what to do. Apologies again if this is the wrong place to post this.

Anyway, she’s due to start sixth form in September, managed to snag a place at this really great private sixth form (which is costing an arm and a leg to afford 😅 )(not trying to sound like a twat by saying that it’s private, will edit it that out if that’s a problem) However, we have one (not) tiny issue.

I believe her aim is to join this new 6th form and pose as male (again, forgive me for my language if that’s rude) As she turned 16 earlier this year, she was able to get her name legally changed.

To put it bluntly, how fucked are we? I mean it’s going to come out eventually isn’t it? And I know it’ll be sooner than later. My fear isn’t that she’ll get bullied/made fun of/won’t be respected, more of that she’ll get “outed”/her birth sex will be noticeable, despite her short haircut, and masculine suits (they have to wear smart/business clothing).

She refuses for us to have any communication with the school to let them know, even though we’ve explained to her (many times) that it would be so much better for her if we did.

Even though I honestly am struggling with her transition, I still (and will always) love her more than life itself, and me and DH (who has also expressed his concerns about this) don’t want her to be upset/be in for a “big shock” when it all goes to shit (pardon my language).

She’s also trying to convince DH to get her passport changed? Please tell me you need both parent’s consent for that? I will never say yes to that and she knows it.

Thanks in advance everyone, hope you’re all having a great Sunday. ❤️

But again, it isn’t anything about acceptance or not that’s the point. What you look like or how you present yourself has nothing to do with your biological sex.

Nope - show me something anti trans. Being pro sex based rights is not anti trans

Speaking as a gay man, he looks plenty man enough to me. 😉

Seriously, I just wanted to throw in my agreement to everything you said, not that I don't think you were managing quite well on your own. 😆

MN is extremely anti trans.

That’s the first comment on here that’s made me smile 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I wouldn’t collude with an anorexic by telling them they need to be thinner and more than o wouod collude with a young persons desire to change sex by telling them it wouod be possible to do so.

if this makes me ‘anti trans’ then ik happy to be so - and I’m a mother of a trans child.

Attraction to ALL genders. Bisexual is attraction to two genders

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things but they are linked in a couple of ways.

Firstly, the Cass Review showed that 81% of boys and 89% of girls that were seen by GIDS were same sex attracted (L, G or B).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/what-cass-review-says-about-surge-in-children-seeking-gender-services

'So many potentially gay children were being sent down the pathway to change gender, two of the clinicians said there was a dark joke among staff that “there would be no gay people left”.'

https://archive.is/FYWSN
(archived Times article)

Secondly, when someone says they are the opposite sex they also tend to describe their sexual orientation in a back-to-front way. This is how we get men like Roxy Tickle demanding to be allowed to join lesbian dating apps. I have heard the reverse situation is also beginning to become a problem for gay men.

What sort of relationship do you hope to have with your child after 18? You have a 16 year old who deserves to be heard, if you think they need help and support, guide then towards it, but ignoring their wishes/ going behind their back is a sure way to stop then talking to you as soon as they are old enough to do so.

And never, not once, did I imply that being a ‘butch lesbian’ was a ‘consolation prize’ for being ‘trans’!

Now that she is a boy, is she still attracted to boys, or has she changed to liking girls

If she still likes boys and she is trying to pass as a boy is she prepared for being called gay?

There are two sexes. There are many ‘genders’.

So many comments on this thread have misinterpreted what the Supreme Court ruling implies. That is still very unclear in many areas.

The SC said that biological sex should be the basis of the meaning of the terms "man" and "woman" under the Equality Act, which, while an important law, is still only one law. It didn't suddenly make it illegal for schools to do (or not do) this or that service for trans kids. It didn't make anything illegal at all, because that's not what court judgements do.

Certainly the judgement will have repercussions for public policy, and it may be seen as a moment when the tide turned (although I suspect that started a couple of years ago). But it doesn't mean that people can now go into any institution or company waving a bit of paper and demand that the head teacher (etc) change their policy or face arrest.

Also, OP, just on the passport question: If your daughter does manage to get a passport with M on it for sex, she should be very careful about using it to enter countries outside the EU, and perhaps Canada/Australia/NZ. Even the US might give her a hard time about it these days.

Still? I'm not sure OP ever mentioned her child's sexuality, unless I missed it.

The question wasn’t posed to you

First, don't be so rude.

Second, this is a discussion forum. If you only want one person to comment and nobody else, send them a private message.

Third, my question (which was actually a genuine question, in case I had missed the OP's comment on their child's sexuality that you were responding to) was posed to you.

What sort of relationship can you have with your daughter if you lie to them? No one can change sex. Her daughter isn’t a boy.

Do you even know what the definition of ‘woke’ actually is? If so, would you care to explain what is wrong with being “so, so woke”?

There was nothing rude about my response, it was stating a fact

The Supreme Court ruling was a superb explication of statutory interpretation. The judges talk through the whole process of how a law should be interpreted with regard to its original aim, in a way that is coherent and workable.

So while the judgment concerned the EA specifically, anybody wanting to bring a case under the School Premises regulations can expect the judge to follow the same reasoning.

You are correct that nobody will be arrested. This is civil, not criminal law. They will be sued. FWS are now taking the Scottish Government to court, in part over their trans guidance for schools.

The trouble is nobody knows what you mean when you say 'gay' or 'man'

You might be a man who is sexually attracted to men
Or a man who is sexually attracted to men and to women who say they are men
Or a woman who says she is a man and who is sexually attracted to men
Or a woman who says she is a man and who is sexually attracted to men and to other women who say they are men
You might even be a woman who says she is a man and is only sexually attracted to other women who say they are men.

Also I see the issue of pretending to be the opposite sex and deception ij sexual contact has been raised. OP your child is potentially openin themselves up to criminal proceedings if they lie about their sex and sexual contact takes place where they other party is misled.

Do you think it’s okay for the OP and her husband to lie to the school that their child is not the sex that she is?

Nobody is suggesting that the OP should not support her child. But informing the school that their DC is trans and wishes to be known by a male name and pronouns is categorically not the same as lying to the school on their forms by saying that the child IS male.

Is it supporting a child to say No, sorry DC, I can’t tell the school you are male, because that could get you and us into trouble for not telling the truth (and jeopardise your school place/potentially cost us a lot of money). But we can speak to the school to explain that you identify as trans and would like to be known in school as a boy.

Do you genuinely think the OP should effectively be misrepresenting her child’s sex and concealing it from the school, and not to go along with this should risk her child cutting her off?

What else would you think a parent should lie about on official forms just to please a child? If the OP’s DC identified as poor should OP defraud the school by concealing her income to get a bursary? If the child really wished they were a musician should the OP falsely put down that they had Grade 8 violin? The school offer a place to a child assuming that the parents are applying truthfully and in good faith. Not being honest in basic facts in the application is not acceptable.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/20/woman-jailed-posing-as-man-cambridge-crown-court