Page 5 | horrible generalisations about parents of trans kids on mn

GCAcademic · 30/03/2021 11:25

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PopperUppleton · 30/03/2021 12:42

Some people seem to see transphobia in the mildest of comments, if they are that way inclined. Even if the comment is nothing whatsoever to do with anything relating to transpeople.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 14:58

I've also seen a fair amount of people turning threads into a trans debate when the original question didn't have anything to do with transgender people at all.

ThatsShitTryHarder · 30/03/2021 15:18

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

I've also seen a fair amount of people turning threads into a trans debate when the original question didn't have anything to do with transgender people at all.

And I’ve seen people starting trans threads on the FWR board and then complaining that all feminists talk about is trans issues.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 15:38

yes, because trans issues are never discussed much on the feminst boards anyway.

ThatsShitTryHarder · 30/03/2021 18:03

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Buttonfm · 30/03/2021 18:14

Hi OP, I agree with you and hardly ever go on the feminism board because of the transphobia.
I'm so pleased you are a lovely, supportive parent to your trans child. I wish you both all the happiness in the world. Sending lots of love to you and your son 💖

midgedude · 30/03/2021 19:01

I do feel as if the op has her fingers in her ears and only wants one type of support snd advice

My parents supported me to be myself and not accept sex based limitations whilst also helping me to accept that I was female and always would be. Total honesty No lies.

I think that kind of unconditional love, positive feedback , support on an unconventional path , has helped me grow to an acceptance , and gratitude that I didn't do anything as a child that would impact my long term physical health

HeadNorth · 30/03/2021 19:06

@midgedude. Well obviously you aren't trans. Nothing your parents say can make you trans, but they can make you feel absolutely shit about it. My lovely young family member who is trans did not come out until they were 19. They have right-on feminist parents, at least 2 gay cousins, we are none of us walking gender stereotypes. Yet they are trans. Some people just are. You cannot do anything but accept it, assuming you love them.

midgedude · 30/03/2021 19:13

As a child .. say aged 9 to about 18/19 I thought I was a boy, called David. I still am male in dreams years later. There are much darker elements that are best not talked about in case it gives people ideas

Obviously I am not trans

The point is it's a bloody normal conviction to think and feel that something is not right and your sex Is all wrong

and there is rarely a need for that to turn into living your life as trans

But I know this will be disregarded because you know better than someone who lived through this

Sundances · 30/03/2021 19:14

Surely trans supportive media/ people are as bad.

You either support trans women competing in female sports or you are anti trans

You either support transgender people and any special laws being enacted for them or you are anti trans

I'm sure trans people are as nice or nasty as everyone else - but that's not allowed - they are all sad victims - if you criticise you are anti trans

And the refusal to even consider the above for debate means people like me are labelled anti trans - when I'm not

ThatsShitTryHarder · 30/03/2021 19:27

@Buttonfm

Hi OP, I agree with you and hardly ever go on the feminism board because of the transphobia. I'm so pleased you are a lovely, supportive parent to your trans child. I wish you both all the happiness in the world. Sending lots of love to you and your son 💖

I do hope whenever you venture over into the pit of transphobia that is FWR, that you report all those dreadful transphobic posts?

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 19:33

I've reported a fair few transphobic threads on FWR and they have been taken down. Thank goodness MNHQ are fairly quick at doing so. I absolutely agree that you should report any transphobic (not differing opinions, blatantly transphobic) threads as they will be removed and then we can all pretend that the posters aren't transphobic again

Zoorhik · 30/03/2021 19:38

@outedbyfaircop

my kid is trans. he is 14. I have been through the mill with him right enough, and would probably have described myself as "gender critical" a few years ago. however, I started to get uncomfortable with the level of outright hostility to trans people, people refusing to use pronouns etc - it's just not for me. I unpeaked. never discussed this with my kid or anything, and when he came out as trans, we did and are doing the whole "watchful waiting" thing while also being 100% affirming for now. I'd say more but I don't feel like this is the place.

I'm currently locked in a bit of a debate with mnhq about what is and isn't ok to say about parents of trans kids. it seems there's a lot of generalisations - we're homophobic, we subscribe to sexist rigid gender roles, we're lying to our kids, we have munchausens by proxy - and as long as it's generalised and not aimed at an individual, it's apparently allowed to stand? what other groups of people is it ok to do this to? women called Karen? parents of children with ADHD/ODD/foetal alcohol syndrome? is it ok for me to say "if you are gender critical you are raising your child to be a bigot who hates trans people"? if not why not? as long as I'm talking generally right?

I find it creates an incredibly hostile environment for parents like me. I've been around on this board under various names for a long time. I've had good advice on here, I've made RL friends. but the hostility to trans people and parents of trans kids is wearing me out. I'm not talking about being at cross purposes wrt political aims - if you think puberty blockers/hormones should be banned for under 18s, or everyone should only ever use the toilets of their sex at birth, you do you, be upfront and say that, that's fine. but people don't say that, presumably they don't dare to, so they hint and suggest and present a narrative that suggests this is what needs to happen by talking about brainwashing, or by painting trans people as either sexual predators or confused autistic lesbians. it reminds me of people who talk about 'muslim grooming gangs' when they mean 'brown people are awful' then turn round and go 'but how is that racist, islam isn't a race'. I don't want to censor anyone honestly stating their genuinely held opinions, but the constant 'eww trans people and their allies amirite' narrative goes beyond that, and isn't conducive to honest good faith debate imo.

it's exhausting to read. I'm sure I'll get jumped on and called all the bastards of the day, or talked about on the "secret" thread for slagging trans inclusive posters off on, or accused of mining for screenshots. I don't care, I wanted to get this off my chest.

I totally agree OP and I’m with you all the way. Sending you virtual hugs.

HeadNorth · 30/03/2021 19:57

@midgedude

As a child .. say aged 9 to about 18/19 I thought I was a boy, called David. I still am male in dreams years later. There are much darker elements that are best not talked about in case it gives people ideas

Obviously I am not trans

The point is it's a bloody normal conviction to think and feel that something is not right and your sex Is all wrong

and there is rarely a need for that to turn into living your life as trans

But I know this will be disregarded because you know better than someone who lived through this

I know that you are not trans because you have told me yourself. I know my family member is, because they are. Unless you think you know better than someone you have never met?

I have no idea about their dreams as a child, they did not manifest any particular gendered stereotypes until they revealed, as a young adult, they were trans. It is hard to accept, but you have to accept the authenticity of other people's lived experiences.

I don't know what it feels like to be trans, because I am not trans. Neither do you.

midgedude · 30/03/2021 20:04

What I am saying is that from the age of 9 to 18, I would have told you I was a boy

I guess therefore you have to hear what children say and then give them 10 years to be sure.

I think you have to do more than just wait . You need to be offering support to help the child as they grow

And I am saying that the nature of that support should not be unquestioning affirmation for a trans identity but unquestioning support of the person as "perfect as they are"

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 20:15

Oh good lord. As if parents of trans kids haven't already thought about offering support for our kids to be happy in themselves.

Do you think we all have a massive party when our kids come out to us and that we air punch and do a little jig because our children want to have major surgery and be on lifelong medication.

Its one of the most heartbreaking things to go through as a parent and we all find our own way through, sadly we can't really seek any support on here at all because of all the people with their handful of links that they love to put on every thread going and the dismissive behaviour of people who have never had to go through this and use our heartache as another little high five to each other because they stopped us talking.

HeadNorth · 30/03/2021 20:44

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult I haven't walked your road but my lovely family member has - and I can assure you she has always, from the day they were born, offered unquestioning support of her child as "perfect as they are". As it turns out, part of what they are is trans. Which is hard, but if you love your children, love your family, then you have to find your road to acceptance and understanding. It is so much more complex and nuanced than anyone who has never experienced it can realise.

midgedude · 30/03/2021 20:52

Oh I don't think it's easy by any means . But I am encouraging you to keep trying anyway

And children have access to much ,especially online, guidance to help them get what they want . And that means people are teaching them how to manipulate you

But it is normal , people have lived through this for thousands of years , so hang on in there because you can make a difference

Think hard about how you might reinforce or challenge the gender stereotypes that underpin much of the distress.

Make efforts to introduce role models that might appeal to your child , people like them in key ways

Help them think about other things ... what job do they see themselves doing, how do they prepare for that , or hobbies , ... thinking about other things than identity

HeadNorth · 30/03/2021 21:05

@midgedude with respect, based on your previous posts, I don't think you are in any position to offer 'advice' to anyone dealing directly with a trans family member. Maybe it would be better for you to listen and learn?

LangClegsInSpace · 30/03/2021 21:08

If you search my posts under this name you will see a real world example of real harm and distress caused in real life to me and my kid

This is maybe off topic but as you've brought it up -

I understand you've had some sort of dispute with fair cop. I don't know the details and I have no intention of searching your posts because if they have actually outed you then I would probably also end up knowing things about your RL that you might not wish to be known by all and sundry.

Do you see what I mean?

Your username is like a continuous self-outing mechanism that can't be good for either you or your child. Especially if you are inviting people to search and see what it's all about. Especially if you are using the same name across unrelated threads and boards - it links the content of all your posts with whatever personal information you believe fc have leaked about you.

I'm not commenting at all on your dispute with fc, I don't know the details or whether they outed you or not.

But if they did out you and as a result there is personal information available about you and your family then it would be best to stop pointing people towards it. Seriously, consider a namechange, at least for unrelated threads. Also MNHQ will sometimes agree to retrospectively change usernames across multiple threads to protect privacy.

If they didn't out you then you should just stop it.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 21:09

HeadNorth thank you, I am many years into this with my son and he is just starting down the road of his medical transition, I will, as I always have been, there for him a million percent. I have stood by his side through thick and thin and that will never change. If I could wave a magic wand and make him happy within himself the I absolutely would. I'm so glad that you are there for your family member, sadly my dc and I are alone as my family didn't agree with transitioning at all. Your support for your family member will mean more to them than you will ever know

midgedude I really don't need to be patronised or offered irrelevant advice from someone who hasn't been in my shoes. My child came out as trans before it became a mainstream thing, was one of a tiny handful of children in the country to seek help for this, and didn't have Internet access at that time. I have 6 children, there is literally no gender stereotypes in my home and never has been. It has been over a decade for us and my child is an adult and has, until now, had no medical intervention at all. You may think you know it all from a barely relevant experience of being a kid and having some mixed feelings, and possibly from reading a few blogs, but the real and lived experience of parenting a trans child is very, very different. And actually his gender identity is the least interesting thing about him and is barely spoken about at all so we don't need to think about other things we already do.

Thanks for demonstrating why some people shouldn't bother posting in this section though.

ThatsShitTryHarder · 30/03/2021 21:12

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Original poster

outedbyfaircop · 30/03/2021 21:13

@LastRoloIsMine

(actually i might just use “transphobic” in future as i find gender critical to be compelled speech that denies reality)

Oh the irony 🤣

yes it was deliberate, did you like it?

OP posts:

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult · 30/03/2021 21:22

That’s a very inaccurate view of the discussions that go on here, but if I felt like you that that was really happening, I would look for support elsewhere.

It really isn't. I actually stuck around on one trans thread to answer all the questions people said never got answered, and I certainly did that. For my troubles I was called racist, stupid, thick, 'obviously young and inexperienced', told that I wanted people to go through brutal operations and questioned why I want that, called racist, accused of merailing, then accused of not answering questions... on and on it went. Funnily enough not many of those people answered my questions although I answered every single one of theirs.

I actually don't come here for support about my trans child, however I really do try and offer support when I see a thread because I know how they always go.

Just so I'm clear on your stance though, you advocate for people who are on LGBT kids to fuck off and talk elsewhere so we aren't railroaded into silence by certain members of this site? Interesting that you think people who have no real reason to be here other than for arguments sake should be the ones to stay around and not those who actually need these boards to talk about their own issues.