horrible generalisations about parents of trans kids on mn

[outedbyfaircop]

my kid is trans. he is 14. I have been through the mill with him right enough, and would probably have described myself as "gender critical" a few years ago. however, I started to get uncomfortable with the level of outright hostility to trans people, people refusing to use pronouns etc - it's just not for me. I unpeaked. never discussed this with my kid or anything, and when he came out as trans, we did and are doing the whole "watchful waiting" thing while also being 100% affirming for now. I'd say more but I don't feel like this is the place.

I'm currently locked in a bit of a debate with mnhq about what is and isn't ok to say about parents of trans kids. it seems there's a lot of generalisations - we're homophobic, we subscribe to sexist rigid gender roles, we're lying to our kids, we have munchausens by proxy - and as long as it's generalised and not aimed at an individual, it's apparently allowed to stand? what other groups of people is it ok to do this to? women called Karen? parents of children with ADHD/ODD/foetal alcohol syndrome? is it ok for me to say "if you are gender critical you are raising your child to be a bigot who hates trans people"? if not why not? as long as I'm talking generally right?

I find it creates an incredibly hostile environment for parents like me. I've been around on this board under various names for a long time. I've had good advice on here, I've made RL friends. but the hostility to trans people and parents of trans kids is wearing me out. I'm not talking about being at cross purposes wrt political aims - if you think puberty blockers/hormones should be banned for under 18s, or everyone should only ever use the toilets of their sex at birth, you do you, be upfront and say that, that's fine. but people don't say that, presumably they don't dare to, so they hint and suggest and present a narrative that suggests this is what needs to happen by talking about brainwashing, or by painting trans people as either sexual predators or confused autistic lesbians. it reminds me of people who talk about 'muslim grooming gangs' when they mean 'brown people are awful' then turn round and go 'but how is that racist, islam isn't a race'. I don't want to censor anyone honestly stating their genuinely held opinions, but the constant 'eww trans people and their allies amirite' narrative goes beyond that, and isn't conducive to honest good faith debate imo.

it's exhausting to read. I'm sure I'll get jumped on and called all the bastards of the day, or talked about on the "secret" thread for slagging trans inclusive posters off on, or accused of mining for screenshots. I don't care, I wanted to get this off my chest.

Wtf is trans behaviour? In a FOUR year old?

It's ridiculous to suggest we can't discuss parenting, or for that matter, neurodivergence, life events, and societal issues, because either in isolation or combination they have an impact on children and their self view.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

There’s a secret thread?

How do you get invited to the secret thread? Is there a password?

In a 4 year old it is the parents interpretation of the behaviour
Let children be children. There are no girl or boy toys and the same with behaviour.

And btw, I dress like a man, don't shave or wear make up. I also watch sports and enjoy mountaineering.

Plus I wanted to be a boy when i was going through puberty.

Does that mean I'm trans?

I feel like a lot of the radfem GC perspective is too harsh with too little nuance on parenting, and yet the gender affirming TRA mums and TRAs themselves are just nuts. Its difficult isnt it

Yes what is trans behaviour in a 4 year old? Would love an answer to this question.

To believe that a 4 year old can demonstrate trans behaviour you have to believe in innate gender. Separate gender identity from dysphoria. This is harmful to kids who have dysphoria and require treatment that is properly researched
This is the problem with lumping everything together under the 'trans' umbrella

I have a kid who identifies as trans. Its hellish frankly.

The fact that mumsnet is a place I can talk openly about it and the challenges it brings is fabulous. I see no transphobia here or abuse of parents of trans kids.

SOME parents are homophobic. SOME parents of trans kids appear to have muschausens (whatever its called) but why would people discussing that be offensive?

Pretty much everywhere else I turn as a parent I am unable to talk freely and honestly.

For people who embrace this ideology the truth is hurtful and difficult. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it.

TroublesomeTownHouse
I really feel for you. Talking about it in a sensible way is impossible in most of society now
I have asd children, as do friends. They all identify as bi, asexual, pan. We are fearful that they will identify as trans and want to go down a medical route.

Is this another plop and run?

"Trans behaviour " was a poor choice of words I apologise.

Of course at such a young age no one was assuming anything along the lines of trans.

The point I was trying to make is that dc and lots of others dont just wake up one day and decide they are a girl or a boy.

Some will have been wrestling with these feelings for years.

They need care as well.

There are very very few threads on here concerning trans kids that dont attract an awful lot of negative and dismissive comments.

I'm not so much of a word smith as some on here so it can difficult to argue a point.

Also parent to a trans child. Finding the discussions on mn has been like an oasis of sensible amongst the madness. My DD's explanations of 'facts' just make no sense and all guidance was saying I must affirm her reality, even if that meant convincing myself black was white (or female was male). Discussions on here are so so important and must be allowed to continue.

OP, I get it. Your child has come out as trans and you’re worried how they will be treated by others. Pop over and read the threads where a parent is asking for advice because their child has ‘come out as trans’. The vast majority of replies, even from very GC posters, will say to treat them with kindness, keep the channels of communication open and to reassure their child that they can be who they want to be without having to make changes to their body to fit a societal stereotype.

I personally see teens as cannon fodder in this, rather than young people ‘finding themselves’. Certain people know that these type of behaviours spread like wildfire among teenagers, and that if they can get the numbers up and win the social media war, of which teens are king, it will further their agenda. When I see the ‘ew, trans’ posts (not that I’m aware of anyone saying that specifically), they generally mean the older puppet masters rather than the children, which as I said tend to be seen as victims more than anything.

Despite how ‘hostile’ it seems, GC women are really just trying to protect kids from themselves. People say ‘trans is too extreme to be a fad’, but nothing is too extreme for emotional teenagers. When I was at school, it was sort of ‘cool’ to be seen as a troubled soul, emo was very in and a lot of girls took to cutting themselves. One or two were authentically troubled, and have continued to be troubled; the vast majority grew out of this way of thinking, and now less happy lives. Thank god the only reminders they have are a few faded scars - not belittling it but gender reassignment regret would be a lot, lot harder to come to terms with.

I’m not denying there are horrible little shits out there who would pick on your child for being ‘trans’, but you really have nothing to fear from GC women. They are the only people standing between children and irreversible life changing medical procedures at the moment.

YANBU OP, I'm in agreement with you

outedbyfaircop I am sorry you have had those experiences or read things. I've found Mumsnet a real variety of experiences and opinions. There are some very good supportive groups for parents out there as well.

YANBU, OP. I don’t pretend to have the answers on questions of sex and gender but the FWR boards on Mumsnet are vile. There’s a thin veneer of “we’re just asking questions” but within about four comments it always descends into mockery, stereotyping and cruelty (and it’s not isolated posters, it’s nearly bloody everyone, and dissenting voices get shouted down and called handmaidens). There’s no feminism-related topic, however serious, that won’t get hijacked within about thirty seconds into a rant about everyone’s favourite hobby horse (or else threads on other feminist topics just get ignored). There’s also a completely batshit level of paranoia on there about trans people using XYZ to send subliminal messages to our kids - I’m not talking about sex ed in schools, I’m talking ridiculously out there conspiracy theories.

Plus - trans rights aside - it’s worse than the bloody Daily Mail comments section on there. Endless whining about “woke” and how WOC are being divisive if they offer a perspective on how feminism could be more inclusive. Anti-racism and anti-homophobia constantly get sneered at and dismissed as “identity politics”. I’ve seen a lot of disgusting bigotry towards gay men on there and far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories getting shared without being called out. Plus there’s the willingness to chum up with the far right and MRAs (and actively praise and promote them) because they have acceptable views on trans issues, but not with other feminists who just have different views or are deemed too “third wave”. It’s very sad because there aren’t enough accessible feminist spaces on the internet but those parts of Mumsnet have gone completely toxic.

@NameChangedForThis15 I have been on here for years and simply don’t recognise most of what you say.

There is no chumming up that I have seen. Rather, there is astonishment that parties that purport to support women, and government bodies established to uphold equalities legislation pay so little heed to women and so much to the T in LGBT, while sections of the media that espouse views many of us abhor appear to listen and see the risks to women’s rights.

And the questions get asked over and over again because an answer would be welcomed. The ‘google it’, ‘do the work yourself’ answers, often given by posters who throw a ‘fact’ in with no source or evidence, get us nowhere in trying to understand and foster only further suspicion as to motivation. I don’t think it’s unreasonable if some cynicism then creeps in as to who some of these posters are and and why they are here.

As to parents of teens and younger going through this, my heart goes out to them. I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is. I can see that the ferocity of the debate could be extremely upsetting, but that is not a reason to close down the debate.

Wow, namechangedforthis15 no wonder you did!
So the feminists on Mumsnet are racist, homophobic conspiracy theorists who chum up with MRAs -seriously?
I totally acknowledge that there are toxic elements on Mumsnet, mainly on AIBU and have written the odd thread ranting about this myself. But I certainly do not see the above on the Feminist boards. There is a massive amount of support for lesbians, and as for praising and promoting MRAs, that's insane. MRAs are often the ones abusing GC women online. To think the feminists board is here are praising and supporting MRAs is frankly ludicrous.

I've seen lots of support for worried parents who come on to that board, because they fear for the future of their trans identifying teens. And who wouldn't fear that their child was on their way to such s medicalised pathway. I was one of those female teens who very much felt like a boy, and struggled so badly with puberty. But I grew out of it and am happy in my skin now, some children aren't being given the chance to grow out of it.

I have absolutely no idea where the far right antisemitic theories or bigotry towards gay men is. I would report these things myself, if I saw them.
It is often said in the feminist chat section that feminists would fight alongside trans people, if trans people wanted to fight for their own space in society, but unfortunately their own space isn't enough for the TRAs, which has lead to where we are at now.

@NameChangedForThis15 Very well said 👏🏻 👏🏻 I recognise what you say completely.

I see the affirmation only model is present on this thread
I watched 2 sessions of mermaids training. It was terrible. Factually incorrect and was identifying children as trans without the child deciding for themselves. The story sack training for teachers played out other children suggesting the main character was trans. All based on liking the wrong things and playing with the wrong toys for their sex. I would be worried if any parent wasn't disturbed by this
MN is disliked because there are intelligent women here who can argue false points

You are right OP, it's exhausting and every single bloody thread gets taken over by them so everyone else just leaves.