horrible generalisations about parents of trans kids on mn

[outedbyfaircop]

my kid is trans. he is 14. I have been through the mill with him right enough, and would probably have described myself as "gender critical" a few years ago. however, I started to get uncomfortable with the level of outright hostility to trans people, people refusing to use pronouns etc - it's just not for me. I unpeaked. never discussed this with my kid or anything, and when he came out as trans, we did and are doing the whole "watchful waiting" thing while also being 100% affirming for now. I'd say more but I don't feel like this is the place.

I'm currently locked in a bit of a debate with mnhq about what is and isn't ok to say about parents of trans kids. it seems there's a lot of generalisations - we're homophobic, we subscribe to sexist rigid gender roles, we're lying to our kids, we have munchausens by proxy - and as long as it's generalised and not aimed at an individual, it's apparently allowed to stand? what other groups of people is it ok to do this to? women called Karen? parents of children with ADHD/ODD/foetal alcohol syndrome? is it ok for me to say "if you are gender critical you are raising your child to be a bigot who hates trans people"? if not why not? as long as I'm talking generally right?

I find it creates an incredibly hostile environment for parents like me. I've been around on this board under various names for a long time. I've had good advice on here, I've made RL friends. but the hostility to trans people and parents of trans kids is wearing me out. I'm not talking about being at cross purposes wrt political aims - if you think puberty blockers/hormones should be banned for under 18s, or everyone should only ever use the toilets of their sex at birth, you do you, be upfront and say that, that's fine. but people don't say that, presumably they don't dare to, so they hint and suggest and present a narrative that suggests this is what needs to happen by talking about brainwashing, or by painting trans people as either sexual predators or confused autistic lesbians. it reminds me of people who talk about 'muslim grooming gangs' when they mean 'brown people are awful' then turn round and go 'but how is that racist, islam isn't a race'. I don't want to censor anyone honestly stating their genuinely held opinions, but the constant 'eww trans people and their allies amirite' narrative goes beyond that, and isn't conducive to honest good faith debate imo.

it's exhausting to read. I'm sure I'll get jumped on and called all the bastards of the day, or talked about on the "secret" thread for slagging trans inclusive posters off on, or accused of mining for screenshots. I don't care, I wanted to get this off my chest.

What other situation involves taking drugs to stunt pubescent brain and bone development, becoming sexually dysfunctional and infertile, and cutting off perfectly healthy body parts, in order to 'fix' someone?

Lots of surgeries and medications are a balancing act.

For example, someone i know is having a health problem. She has to decide whether to live with that health problem or take medication which will stop her immune system from working.

Someone else I know has severe depression. The meds she is on stops her sex drive completely, and she gets really bad acne from it as well.

Last year I had a cancerous tumour removed, I actually felt OK with the cancer, since then I have developed all sorts of movement and speech problems.

Personally I decided against puberty blockers for my child so I'm not going to sit here advocating for them, but ALL medication and operations are essentially a trade off.

When there is something physically wrong we may try to fix it

There are loads of operations that are done on the basis of mental health rather than physical health. Why is it only the ops transgender people have that are targeted?

Almost all stories of trans people, and particularly currently 'trans kids', feature anecdotes about little boys wanting to play with dresses and dolls being a sign of their 'transness'.

This is what happens when you get your opinions online rather than lived experience.

I could describe all 6 of my dc and you would never know who was male or female and which child was trans. Parents like me tend to stay quiet and keep our heads down because of the backlash we get from the likes of some posting in this thread.

If you want a true representation then you should maybe hang around and listen rather than posting one sided irrelevant views so people like me just think "I cant be arsed" and don't bother posting their experience and views.

Two things I am certain of are that unless you are Trans you have absolutely no idea how it feels.

A bit like how no one but biological women know what it is to be a female? Incredible.

You are extremely brave to post this OP. Thank you and those like you (including @DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult) who stand up to the transphobia on these boards. It is so depressing.

OP I read something on MN about this earlier that I found really upsetting (shamefully I didn’t respond because I didn’t want the argument) and it’s only now I’m realising how tough it must be as a parent of a trans kid to read that stuff! Fair play for posting. You sound like a really great parent and I hope your DC is doing well.

@TwoBreakingIntoOne

You can do all the reading and research you like, it's still just opinion.

Until you live your life dealing with on a daily basis, 24/7, year after year the feelings and emotions in your own mind whilst battling with the prejudice and negativity all around, your opinion on how Trans people think and feel is I'm afraid of very little value.

I like my interventions to be evidenced based
If children are potentially going to lose their fertility, bone density, IQ, the ability to have sexual feelings and orgasm I think its very important

@TwoBreakingIntoOne

I like my interventions to be evidenced based If children are potentially going to lose their fertility, bone density, IQ, the ability to have sexual feelings and orgasm I think its very important

I have said several times that children need protecting.
That doesn't mean that support posts should be hijacked time and time again.

You seem to be arguing with yourself here.

Children and teenagers need to protecting - in a way the law needs needs to be changed so as to ensure the that parents aren't the ones who are put in the unenviable position of conflict with teens who aren't yet mature enough to be able to make decisions. The law needs to protect young people.

@Imasoulman - No one is suggesting that there is not a huge problem right now with a disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans, clearly these children need protecting from making irreversible decisions. But we cant just ignore the genuine trans children who are suffering and also need help.

The trouble is that parents have no way of knowing whether they are dealing with a 'genuine trans child' or one of the disproportionate number of children who are identifying as trans but who need protecting from making irreversible decisions.

You are correct that No one is suggesting that there is not a huge problem right now ...

No one wants to talk about it at all! It's a huge elephant in the room.

The only people talking about it are those you would dismiss as 'trans deniers, GC people etc' who you believe have nothing to offer the parents on this board even if, like @oxalisRed, they have a child who identifies as trans or, like @midgedude, they would have been one of these children if they had gone through childhood and adolescence 'right now' while this 'huge problem' is going on.

I agree with a PP - parents are in a no win situation. The whole of society is giving parents the message to affirm their child's identity and that to not do this will cause their child unbearable mental distress. But every parent must also know, deep down, that there's a fair to very high chance that their child is one of the disproportionate number who have been swept up into this huge problem.

OP's way of dealing with this appears to be, we did and are doing the whole "watchful waiting" thing while also being 100% affirming for now.

Which doesn't make sense because if you are 100% affirming then you are not doing watchful waiting, you are taking the first steps down a very long road. Social transition is not harmless. It can be incredibly difficult for a child to change their mind once their family, school, clubs, friendship groups etc. have all reinforced and endorsed their gender identity and shifted everything around to accommodate it.

The way to deal with this dilemma is not to just shut down all the people saying 'look at this elephant.' MN has always had a reputation for very honest, straight-talking advice and support. If you wanted 'happy mummy, happy baby' or 'your house, your rules' uncritical endorsement of your parenting choices then you went to NetHuns (are they still going?) At its best, MN has always supported parents to ask themselves the hard questions and it has always been resolutely child focused. I don't think this board should be any different.

I agree this board should not be used for political grandstanding, especially on issues that have nothing to do with children or parenting. So it's a shame the OP did that.

[quote LangClegsInSpace]@Imasoulman - No one is suggesting that there is not a huge problem right now with a disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans, clearly these children need protecting from making irreversible decisions. But we cant just ignore the genuine trans children who are suffering and also need help.

The trouble is that parents have no way of knowing whether they are dealing with a 'genuine trans child' or one of the disproportionate number of children who are identifying as trans but who need protecting from making irreversible decisions.

You are correct that No one is suggesting that there is not a huge problem right now ...

No one wants to talk about it at all! It's a huge elephant in the room.

The only people talking about it are those you would dismiss as 'trans deniers, GC people etc' who you believe have nothing to offer the parents on this board even if, like @oxalisRed, they have a child who identifies as trans or, like @midgedude, they would have been one of these children if they had gone through childhood and adolescence 'right now' while this 'huge problem' is going on.

I agree with a PP - parents are in a no win situation. The whole of society is giving parents the message to affirm their child's identity and that to not do this will cause their child unbearable mental distress. But every parent must also know, deep down, that there's a fair to very high chance that their child is one of the disproportionate number who have been swept up into this huge problem.

OP's way of dealing with this appears to be, we did and are doing the whole "watchful waiting" thing while also being 100% affirming for now.

Which doesn't make sense because if you are 100% affirming then you are not doing watchful waiting, you are taking the first steps down a very long road. Social transition is not harmless. It can be incredibly difficult for a child to change their mind once their family, school, clubs, friendship groups etc. have all reinforced and endorsed their gender identity and shifted everything around to accommodate it.

The way to deal with this dilemma is not to just shut down all the people saying 'look at this elephant.' MN has always had a reputation for very honest, straight-talking advice and support. If you wanted 'happy mummy, happy baby' or 'your house, your rules' uncritical endorsement of your parenting choices then you went to NetHuns (are they still going?) At its best, MN has always supported parents to ask themselves the hard questions and it has always been resolutely child focused. I don't think this board should be any different.

I agree this board should not be used for political grandstanding, especially on issues that have nothing to do with children or parenting. So it's a shame the OP did that.[/quote]
So what would you do if your child was trans?

I agree this board should not be used for political grandstanding, especially on issues that have nothing to do with children or parenting. So it's a shame the OP did that.

It certainly isn't the op who has done that.

How would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

How would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

I wouldn't recommend starting a thread on here asking for help, all you would get is people sending you links to a trans man in America who did something awful once and then people discussing how their little darlings would never be trans because they are such amazing parents, you would then bugger off looking for help elsewhere and end up somewhere potentially harmful.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

I agree this board should not be used for political grandstanding, especially on issues that have nothing to do with children or parenting. So it's a shame the OP did that.

It certainly isn't the op who has done that.

People can read.

People can read

Thanks for that startling revelation

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

How would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

I wouldn't recommend starting a thread on here asking for help, all you would get is people sending you links to a trans man in America who did something awful once and then people discussing how their little darlings would never be trans because they are such amazing parents, you would then bugger off looking for help elsewhere and end up somewhere potentially harmful.

OK, so how would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

What's your advice for how I could answer that question without ending up 'somewhere potentially harmful'?

I assume you do accept that there is a huge problem because you haven't disputed Imasoulman's posts.

@LangClegsInSpace

How would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

To add to this - I think it's fine for parents to not have an answer to this question because there isn't an answer except for waiting years to find out. And waiting is not an option, everyone must affirm.

I think it's fine for parents to point at massive glaring problems even if they don't have all the answers.

Can you seriously not see the role that the likes of you play here?

You complain about parents pushing their kids, but you and others like you are taking away a place of support for them here by turning threads into your own personal campaign rather than offering support. You don't even offer a differing opinion, just issue lists of things the op shouldn't do, say that they are obviously confirming ti stereotypes in their house, then start with the bloody links.

The likes of me?

@LangClegsInSpace

The likes of me?

Yes.

People who shout very loudly about supporting the kids, while taking away support for the parents who are trying their best to help those kids.

@LangClegsInSpace

How would I work out if my child 'was trans' or if my child was one of the 'disproportionate amount of children particularly girls identifying as trans,' who 'need protecting from making irreversible decisions'?

If you were living through this I am sure that you would have a pretty good insight into their true feelings.
There are trained experts in this field who would very carefully assess and advise.
Not all Trans people go as far as surgery or even hormones, everyone is different.
Don't think that every child who says they are trans are going to be whisked off for surgery in a fortnight.

@OldLang

Two things I am certain of are that unless you are Trans you have absolutely no idea how it feels.

A bit like how no one but biological women know what it is to be a female? Incredible.

Interesting that you only mention biological women knowing what it is to be female, what about biological men only knowing what it is like to be male ?

Is it ok for women to feel they should be men ?

I guess if it doesn't offend your feminist agenda then it's ok?

Trans women are women, trans men are men that's the point !

Firstly, no-one need state their experience and therefore no-one knows each other experience.

We are in a situation where families, young people and parents are almost pawns in this agenda - the number of young people identifying as a different gender in my view indicates a "trend" which I hope will pass like other trends. The worry in this case is that unlike becoming a vegitariam, punk etc etc some of the actions taken in terms of medication can cause long term damage and in many cases will mean that these children/teenagers cannot return to their original state. Parents are in the impossible situation as they have to live with the rebellious teenager and tread a very difficult tightrope - of course they want the best for their child. I believe that if the law banned any medical intervention until at least 18 this would help parents.

There are trained experts in this field who would very carefully assess and advise.

Have you seen GIDS' latest CQC report?