Re: DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy.

[crazyhat]

In reference to the suspended thread titled "DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy." I am the 16 year old, writing it from my mother's point of view, everything I said is true, and my mother and I stand by what I said. See, a few weeks ago she told me that when I first started transitioning, she came to mumsnet for help, and was met by people telling her to not endorse it, and other things that (with hindsight) are blatently transphobic. You are all free to your own opinions, I can't stop that. But I genuinely can't describe the feeling I have towards my body, it's such an extreme disconnect, and I know that transitioning is genuinely the only solution. I am very greatful that my parents support me, unlike many parents, evidently are on here. I'm sorry to anyone who feels decieved, but I was genuinely just doing it to have a sense of understanding of what my parents generation think, and to be brutally honest, it was borderline concerning. I feel sorry for people who's have to hear "advice" from some of you. However I, and my situation, is very much real.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3732775-DS-is-transgender-ftm-16-and-happy

The TRA trend to mangle language is dangerous and the results are being seen now with situations like the op’s.

I feel compassion but also find it more than devastating that you are being led to do this by adults.

If a teenage girl came on here and posted about how she was born a woman and identified as a woman

Jesus, you’re clutching at straws now.

You've stated that you don't want full reassignment. So how can you say you k ow your body is male- but not want to commit to having a body which is? Why remove one aspect of womanhood, and yet not the other? This has and never will make any sense to me. Why bother removing breasts if you're happy to keep your genitals intact and and functioning as a woman?

@Littlemeadow123 a teenage girl came on here and posted about how she was born a woman and identified as a woman, no one would tell her that she is too young/didnt know her own mind or that her feelings might change about this after she turned 25 and her brain had developed properly.

Correct, because she wouldn't have a recognised psychological illness know as gender dysphoria

She would however probably have some other sort of psychological condition if she thought being a women and feeling a woman was a problem to be debated on Mumsnet.

I'm conscious of how young you are. I have teens myself and would never be as robust with them as I usually prefer to be. The thing is I can never agree that removing healthy body parts and taking medication that was never designed for this purpose and about which we know very little with regards to side effects, is the way to handle it. I think intensive counselling and freedom to dress and present however you wish to is the key and I wonder how that might have helped if you hadn't been allowed to progress medically and soon surgically to the point you're at now.

I would support my child in every way I could if they chose this path but I would grieve forever for who they had been and what they had done to themselves. I hope you will always feel this content with your decisions I really do but I don't think you will.

Yet another reason why 16 year olds shouldn’t have the vote.

I plan on adopting.
I am aware that the OP is only 16 but I find the fact that this has even been SUGGESTED by any adult to be incredibly irresponsible.
The OP is a child and cannot possibly understand how they will feel as a parent when older but MUCH more to the point cannot understand what it means to a child to be adopted.
Children do not exist to validate adults' wishes to be parents after they have been stripped of their fertility by poor advice.
Children need adopting but they need adopting by adults who have come to terms with all their own difficulties.
Adoption is for the child.
In fact, in a fairly direct parallel to transitioning as a teen, many adoptees spend their teens in distress but point to something other than their adoption. In their 30s they start to investigate the effect of their adoption.

Why bother removing breasts if you're happy to keep your genitals intact and and functioning as a woman?

Obviously I cant answer for the OP.

But, the question could be answered hypothetically by acknowledging the dysphoria. A person with dysphoria has a belief that certain parts of their body are "wrong".

I'm concerned about such a thread by a minor, Mumsnet.

OP, you are a child and the adults around you gave a duty of care to protect you.

I'm concerned about such a thread by a minor, Mumsnet

^^This.

@drspouse

That is really offensive. Essentially saying that Trans people shouldn't adopt because they have got issues.

At least this thread is giving op a different point of view to that which they are experiencing everywhere else. It should remain.

That’s not what @drspouse was saying at all. You are willfully misunderstanding.

@Littlemeadow123 where did I say that?
Adoption is for the child.
I said clearly that it's not a solution for adults whose fertility has been removed due to adults thinking it's OK to do that.
All adopters who have fertility issues have to resolve their feelings round those before adopting. Having an adult remove your fertility aged 16 is a pretty big issue.

Same with those with body issues though that wasn't my point.

i just want to share my experience and knowledge

Then why did you pretend to be a middle-aged mother in your previous thread?

You got into character and pretended that you were someone you're not. You deceived everyone by telling them you were a parent and people opened up to you about their own children and the struggles they went through parents of a trans children.

You have no idea what it feels like to be a parent of a trans child yet you held yourself out to have first hand experience of it.

I'm not sure what point you thought you were trying to prove by lying about your identity, but it seemed to illustrate that you don't think the truth is relevant because you can say you are whoever you want to be.

I want to say something a little bit different. When I was 16, I'd have immediately dismissed any argument that used the basis 'but you're a child!' as belittling and patronising. I know that most of the posters using it here don't mean it that way (excepting perhaps the person telling OP to go and study instead of posting) but that's absolutely how it would have seemed, and the reaction I'd have had. I wasn't 'a child', I was a human being with deep feelings and beliefs about the world. I was also a very intelligent young woman growing up in an anti-intellectual community. I had big philosophical questions that got shut down with 'nobody thinks like that, just get on with it'.

I was also a 16-year-old who was depressed, self-harming, and didn't expect to live to see 18. I didn't feel like 'a child' in any way, and didn't believe the adults around me were remotely qualified to make decisions about my life when they had so little understanding of who I was and what mattered to me (and their own lives weren't exactly shining examples!).

OP, your personal feelings are real, but you owe it to yourself to do some more investigating before you do anything permanent. Feelings can't always be trusted. You need to be able to articulate what makes you different from a masculine woman, or a woman who hates and rejects all the social stereotypes associated with being female, and to do it in a way that doesn't rely on some ineffable, internal essence. At that point, it's essentially a religious belief about a gendered soul - and as gender roles vary dramatically over culture and time, that doesn't logically hold up. If there's a part of you strongly resisting trying to look at this, think about why that is.

I started to feel better about myself once I met people who were more on my wavelength, and didn't dismiss the things I cared about. The biggest difference I noticed as I got older was that my emotions became far less intense. I'm in my thirties now, and I'm the same person that I was. My core values are the same. But I think very differently about certain things, in ways that I could never have predicted at the age of 16.

This is so sad. Your body is part of you as a whole. We aren't a brain and a separate body. It's so very sad to hate yourself so much that you seek to erase who you are because you believe that you are somehow unacceptable.

Your refusal to even consider that you may one day change your mind about being a parent to a biological child shows your immaturity- and I don’t mean that as an insult- at 16 of course you aren’t fully mature.

If a 15 or 16 year becomes pregnant and wants an abortion would you all be saying this to her? Demanding that she doesn't know what she wants, that she's not mature enough to make that decision and how will she live with that decision in years to come? I would imagine that a decision to have an abortion is a huge one. One that is irreversible and potential could affect someone for life, yet we let 16 year olds, even under 16 year olds make it.

At 16, even at 30 had I known transitioning was an option I’d have seriously considered it. I didn’t fit in anywhere. I wasn’t feminine and was definitely more masculine. I’m still masculine and I still connect socially more with men than women but by 35 my mental outlook had changed completely. I discovered feminism. I understood oppression of females and accepted I was, despite having no feelings to corroborate it, a female. A woman. I don’t feel like a woman. I am a woman by matter of biology only and I’m so glad I didn’t grow up as a teen now because I can guarantee I’d have made a mistake and transitioned. The reason I didn’t was because I only knew of butch lesbians who were male presenting and I knew I wasn’t a lesbian so it didn’t seem to be for me. I still don’t know of any straight females who transition. That in itself is telling. At 30 I’d have supported you transitioning. But man and woman aren’t feelings. They’re not an essence. They’re a biological reality and how we live alongside that is the bit we have to come to terms with. I have a mtf friend who transitioned fully 20 years ago who now regrets it but can do nothing about it because they had all the operations. The dysphoria turned out not to be with their body but their mind and now they have a whole host of new mental health issues to deal with. Transitioning should have fixed the problem but it didn’t it introduced more.

I’d seriously hate for you to come to the realisation 20+ years down the line that you’ve made an irreversible mistake. This isn’t transphobia this is genuine concern from someone who really does understand not “feeling” female. I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m asking you to wait until you have full physical and cognitive maturity before making lasting decisions.

Well if this isn't a TAAT 🤷‍♀️

Hi OP I've just caught up and realised it was you talking to us yesterday not mum.

I think you're very brave opening up like this and I genuinely wish you well. I feel sad and angry for you and young people like you, that our society has fucked up so badly that you on an irreversible path of self harming the amazing body you have.

It's clear as a pp said you're here to validate your decision. All I know is, god forbid i wasn't around anymore and DD was writing this thread I'd be thankful for posters here urging her to reconsider this life altering decision.

I am worried that you likely won't but I do really hope you find peace in what you do next

Indeed we do but having as termination is not the permanent decision that sterilisation is. Many young women describe termination as putting off having children.
It's also not a decision that can wait till the person is old enough to make mature decisions.

That was to hooves

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras you clearly have no understanding of the issues being debated here if you think that comes even close to a relevant or useful comparison.

When I was a teenager I had a horrible disconnect from my body. I knew my body wasn't right, I wanted to be like the skinny male indie boys I idolised, I KNEW I Was one of them.
I starved myself to watch the female curves shrink, I cut myself to punish this female body.
If someone had let me have a mastectomy I wouldn't have flinched.
I ended up hospitalised even though I didn't think there was anything wrong with me.

I know I would have been trans now and I think lots of the women posting here feel that way too.

I know you can't hear this now but know that if you ever change your mind you'll find support and love.
We don't hate you, we worry for you.